Lou Dare: Sydney Hospo Talks

About This Episode

Lou Dare is one of Sydney's most respected hospitality operators with decades of experience opening and running some of the city's most iconic venues. From Goldilocks in Melbourne to Andy's in Manly, Lou has seen it all -- the chaos of openings, the rush of a packed bar, and the grind that wears people down.

In this episode, we cover the real stuff: what actually happens when you open a bar, why bartender boxing changed Lou's life, how to design a bar that works (and where most people get it wrong), and why investing in your staff is the smartest money you'll ever spend.

Plus: a rapid-fire round on bar luxuries, the definitive daiquiri ranking, and the story of how Lou almost lost his cool when Cut Chemist walked into his bar.

Key Topics

• Opening bars: The adrenaline rush and chaos of launching new venues
• Designing bar layouts: Melbourne minimalism and making do with what you've got
• Bartender Boxing: Mental health, camaraderie, and the fight for sponsorship
• Cocktail creation: Drawing inspiration from restaurant cuisine
• Chef-bar collaboration: Cross-pollination of ideas between kitchen and bar
• Bar equipment philosophy: What's worth spending on and what isn't
• Staff investment: Why paying people properly is cheaper than replacing them
• Music, sound systems, and the role of atmosphere in venues
• The daiquiri: Lou's go-to cocktail and why simplicity wins

Full Transcript

This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity. Some conversational fillers and repetitions have been preserved to maintain the authentic flow of the conversation.

**Ronan:** I'm getting used to these now. **Lou:** Your videos at Andy's are [inaudible] awesome. You're a natural. **Ronan:** Well, the the ironic thing was cuz I I I stepped away from there for a while. **Lou:** Yeah. You went to Duck in Duck in Heaven. **Ronan:** Duck in Heaven. Yeah. And that was [inaudible] That was a challenge to say the least. Um, **Lou:** how long were you at Duck in Heaven for? **Ronan:** Was like only like 2 or 3 months. But so she she had she was opened. She was originally open in Monuna, which is just like a little the next couple suburbs over and it was basically just a takeaway shop with a couple of tables and chairs in it. **Lou:** Yeah. I walked past it on the way here actually. **Ronan:** Yeah. And um she that space came up and she um she jumped on it and I happened to be like I I stepped away from Andy. I was just like I got to go and do something else. I got to chill out for a something else. I got to chill out for a bit. Yeah. **Lou:** Cuz if you've ever done an open, it's **Ronan:** Do you know what? I've actually never done an open, but I've I've heard about them and they can be a lot. **Lou:** Do it do it once. **Ronan:** Do it once. Don't do it like 10 times like I've done. Like I'm a sucker. I just It's like there's this adrenaline rush and this like this um **Lou:** there's so much going on. It's like what gets your attention first? It's what gets your attention first? It's like **Ronan:** I don't know. It's well I mean it's the idea of building a concept and then idea of building a concept and then building into that like you or someone comes to you with a with a concept and says look this is what we want to do and then all of a sudden the [inaudible] synapsises just start firing like oh we can do this we can do that we can do this. Um uh and it's a lot of work but it's super rewarding like those first couple of months where the guests are streaming in cuz Sydney loves a bar and it you know it loves to go to an opening. Um well, everyone loves to go to check out the new joint straight away sort of thing. Um **Lou:** and yeah, seeing that seeing that like people go, "Wow, this is amazing. This is really cool. You guys have done so well." Blah blah blah. It's just like dopamine hit after dopamine hit after dopamine hit. Like exhausted all the time, but it's super rewarding. **Ronan:** Is it has it been slightly easier? Like obviously it's never going to be something that you would call easy, but **Lou:** yeah, it's it's like anything else, you know, the more you kind of do it, the more you're prepared for what happens. Um, and it's always a case of, "Oh, we want to be open by this date." And you want to be open by this date." And you go, "Okay, **Ronan:** "Okay, sure." The only one I've ever opened on time was PA, and that was [inaudible] we scraped it in. um opened a place called Goldilocks in Melbourne and we pushed it back months and months and months. Like it became a running joke. Like I was just I was just doing like rockstar shifts for like almost a year. Like I went and worked at Kodiak uh which is a great little bar like one of the first like kind of um Americana sort of bars in um Australia which was really cool like huge bourbon collection like stuff was just um and I was working I was just literally working all around Melbourne. just didn't stop. It was like everyone was just like he's just a gypsy. That's what he is. Like he just And um so we finally got Goldilocks open and even then like the lift was opening up. Our first guest walking in and I was chasing one of the painters out the back door cuz he's finishing painting the air conditioning duct in the ceiling. It's just like yeah the the rush and the um adrenaline of it is is awesome. But and it does get easier cuz you're kind of like, okay, these are the, you know, you know what you need to prioritize, you know what you need to look for. It feels less like you feel less like you're chasing your you feel less like you're chasing your tail. Mhm. **Lou:** Mhm. **Ronan:** Um, so like for example, I walk into Andy's first day and they're like, "Right, what do you think? What do we need to set up?" And within 20 minutes I was like, "That that that that and this is what we'll do for the bar and this is what we'll do for this." And obviously what we'll do for this." And obviously this **Lou:** Did you get to design the entire layout where everything goes? **Ronan:** Uh Andy's I kept it really simple. Um I literally like it was a there's a cuz so there's the bar's kind of an L-shape. Got a set of taps that were in there. We got we took them out and put smaller set in. Um and I always wanted originally I was going to like the original bank was like six taps I think. And I was just like, that's not going to work cuz there's no cold room for the keg room. Like it's all um **Lou:** underneath the bar. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. **Lou:** So that was kind of one of those challenges. So I got shortening that and then I looked at everything else and I was like, you know what? I'm going to do this what I call Melbourne style cuz a lot of places in Melbourne when they were handing out licenses willy-nilly back in the day in the like late '90s, um people were just like converting their cafes and sandwich shops like the Black Pearl, right? one of the greatest bars Australia's ever produced. For the first like 15 years of their run, they didn't have ice wells. They literally had a a a bayarie like that on the like behind them on the shelf. Ice was always fresh. Um **Ronan:** operationally operational. **Lou:** They're winning winning awards left, right, and center, but they they don't even have like an ice well in front of them or a speed rail. **Ronan:** Had a till and then bottles like this. So, and there was a bunch of bars I've worked in where it's kind of like that. Makes clean up a breeze cuz all you have to do is lift everything up and wipe it dry. Kind of like a pub, right? dry. Kind of like a pub, right? Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** So, all I did was drop in nice well for Andy's and it was just a Bunnings sink and I'm doingund 100 covers a day with like 30% cocktails out of beverage. So, and you know I I think the the real trick is always just doing what you can with what you got. I guess Literally like every single staff member I've ever worked for has ever worked for me has always said, **Lou:** "Is that your like your catchphrase or something?" I'm like, "I guess it is, but yeah, **Ronan:** we'll do what we can with what we got. **Lou:** I got it off my dad." And I think it's **Ronan:** You try to keep it minimum. **Lou:** Yeah. I mean, there like having the bells and whistles is always nice. You know, having the beautiful clear ice or the um I was watching your interview with Steve with the the crush ice machine thing. **Ronan:** Oh, I've got one for you as well. We're going to we'll definitely run that for you. I'm super interested to see if you you. I'm super interested to see if you uh see what different people value cuz I've done it with a fair few people now. done it with a fair few people now. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** And um yeah, everyone's got a different answer. **Lou:** Yeah. So, **Ronan:** look, I think **Lou:** I was going to say **Ronan:** when you break it down to the brass tax, you're putting liquid in cups. **Lou:** If you want to have really fancy cups and really beautiful glassware, and you know, you basically need someone to be that's their whole job is making sure that everything is perfect and lovely. You need super expensive machines, all that sort of stuff. That's great. That's really nice, but you've got to transfer that somewhere, you know? You got to that's got to be paid for somewhere. So, you know, 20, you know, cocktails getting north of $25 as a regular now is getting north of $25 as a regular now is just **Ronan:** it's a bit of a bit of a brain melt. But um **Lou:** the price is different because it here because it's not um directly like CBD city or it's standard prices **Ronan:** down here. **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. **Ronan:** Um look, I was that was an initial conversation that everyone kind of had. They were like, "Oh, you know, like when I wrote the wine list, for example, they were like, uh, you know, you can't charge more than 14 bucks a glass. Like people just won't will walk out." And I was like, "Watch me." So my wine list is probably a little cheaper than Sydney. Like it wouldn't go to Bop and Tone level with like, you know, $40 glasses of uh 40 **Lou:** pino $40 penos. **Ronan:** Penos under Coravan. Um, **Lou:** dude, that's not even on Coravan. **Ronan:** Oh, really? crack. **Lou:** That's uh that's giants that's giant steps. But it it is a large glass though. So it's 250 mls. **Ronan:** No. Yeah. Right. Okay. Um so yeah, I'm kind of doing kind of it sits between the the 17 to $23 mark and I haven't had any backlash. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** People and this area as well. There's so many people ex Sydney down here. like this place got the co the postco boom **Lou:** like like many regional centers did. **Ronan:** Um like my like third week here I was getting a coffee at um black market espresso just near the train station there. There's a black market espresso in more. Right. Right. **Lou:** Right. **Ronan:** And I got obscunded by this hairy fell. I'm like it was Oscar from uh Young Henry's. He's like what are you doing here? I was like I just moved here man. What are you doing here? He's like I live here remember? I was like oh yeah. how you doing? He's like, "Welcome to More by the Water." And I just I had a giggle cuz like Anita's Theater. Um got that cool little record store bar that cool little record store bar literally. **Lou:** literally. **Ronan:** Yeah. And is kind of like a like I It's different to Continental, but it's that same, you know, that Mediterranean **Lou:** whitewash walls. It's um you know, steaks and seafood and um lots of little plates. So you get like we get people coming down from Sydney all the time as well and they're like, "Man, this place is great." You know, do really well in Sydney. I'm like, "Cool. That's awesome. But we're here. I go to **Ronan:** That's good. **Lou:** I got you a little present. **Ronan:** It's nothing huge, but there's um something in there that I thought you would like. **Lou:** Okay. I visited I visited Silla Distillery recently. Silla I don't know if you know Robbie Stow. **Ronan:** Yeah, man. Robbie and I go [inaudible] way back. **Lou:** Oh, it's a little bit of incense as well. That's my favorite incense cuz incense is cool. Um **Ronan:** Um **Lou:** Yeah, that's beautiful. **Ronan:** But it's got he's made Australia's first tip lure, which I thought you'd appreciate trying. **Lou:** Lure. Okay. **Ronan:** I mean, it's not the it's not the bottle it came in. **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. No, that's all right. But I was like, I'll bring some down for you to try cuz it's Yeah. **Ronan:** Tache lure. That's **Lou:** It's an Australian first. **Ronan:** That's really cool cuz I did a I made a tapache syrup for a cocktail. Sorry. **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. I know. **Ronan:** Um Um Yeah, I made like this pineapple lump negroni at Pala for one of the lists there. And I made a tapache and then just like reduced the [inaudible] out of it with some agave syrup. And it was just like this thick, trickly, delicious, funky thing. **Lou:** I don't know if it's going to be Yeah. Robbiey's great, man. I've known Robbie for 20 years, easy. Um, we we never bartended together, but we were in Brisbane at the same time, way back in the day. He was at press club and I was around the corner of club and I was around the corner of Barcelona. Steve was floating around somewhere. Oh, he was probably still in London then. Um yeah, Steve came to Bowery just as I was leaving Brisbane for Melbourne. So **Ronan:** to open up his joint there. **Lou:** Yeah. No. Well, he he'd been at the Bowery and then he opened um uh was it start off with Jay and Jay's Jay's a great human as well. He's been around the traps for years, years and years and years. Now works for Campari, I think. I think he's still working for Yeah. No, Robbie's great. Get him to get him to flip a bottle for you one day. I did actually after the party. He's like, "Let's make a cocktail with uh with your fa and partial cure." And I was like, "Yeah, let's do it." And I got him to his flipping tins and stuff. That smells flipping tins and stuff. That smells amazing. Oh, hell yeah. Someone tells me it might taste a bit nicer chilled, but that's the general that's it. It's like fernainy but better. I **Ronan:** not not Yeah. Finally. But it's got that like that gingery. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** Pineapple. That's [inaudible] yum. **Lou:** No ginger in it though, surprisingly. But it does have notes of that like kind of spiciness you get from the ginger. **Ronan:** Um but **Lou:** I imagine that's a pineapple skin fermenting like ferment. That's kind of **Ronan:** what happens. **Lou:** Yeah. Some pineapple skin, some spices. **Ronan:** Call Robbie and tell them to come come through me some. That's **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's only um it's only on prem at the moment. only on prem at the moment. Okay. **Ronan:** Okay. So, **Lou:** So, **Ronan:** well, he's only up the road. **Lou:** Yeah, literally. Literally. **Ronan:** He came in with his little boy um about this time last year and um was we were talking all things. Um we keep making promises to go and visit each other and have be have a barbecue or something, but life gets in the way. You know how it is. **Lou:** Oh, yeah. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. **Lou:** That's really cool, man. Thanks for bringing that. **Ronan:** That's all right. I was I kind of joined the I was still in hospitality, but I kind of joined the sort of wider culture of hospitality a little bit after this. **Lou:** But when bartender boxing was going on, **Ronan:** you did some bartender boxing. **Lou:** What was that experience like? **Ronan:** One of the best experiences of my life. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** Hands [inaudible] down, man. Um, I was humming and hiring about it and I was like, "Oh, like I've always had a passing interest in boxing like you know um growing up with u folks like Mike Tyson and um those sort of guys in the spotlight especially after the ear biting thing." **Lou:** Yeah. But no, like Costasu was a, you know, he was a he was an elite level athlete. He was I think he won gold or like did really well at the Olympics one year or something. So I kind of always was interested in it. And then when the idea of it came around, I reached out to um Mitch uh Mitch Bushell who's now over he lives in the States now. Um absolute mad bastard. Kiwi, lovely guy. Um and I just I just reached out. I was like, you you did the bartender boxing thing, didn't you? He's got cuz he called himself the Ramon Rascal and he's got the shorts up in a frame at Rascals in Sydney. **Ronan:** I didn't know that. But but yeah, next time at the bar **Lou:** up on the wall there like that and it's his his shorts. **Ronan:** Um like a sports memorabilia sort of thing right in with the Rascals uh tag. Anyway, um **Lou:** I said what do you reckon? He's like just just do it. Just do it. It's the best fun you'll ever have with your clothes on. Um and it's just **Ronan:** So obviously he's done it he's done it like the year before. And was that the first time? **Lou:** He did it in the States. Oh, so it was a thing in the States before it ever got brought to or brought to Sydney. **Ronan:** So, it started in America. Um, and Raj, um, who loves he's he's an Englishman living in **Lou:** the States. Um, but he loves Australia. He's he's come out here a few times over the years. He was I think he was a Bombay Global BA or something like that. Um, he's he's absolutely in sync with it. And then um he got chatting to a couple of the guys who box here like Marky Tarant. Uh he's more of a Marky Tarant. Uh he's more of a kickboxer. **Ronan:** So Raj um pioneered it in America then. Was he one of the founders of it or something or how? **Lou:** Yeah, it's his it's his baby. **Ronan:** Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. And so and and the Americans were just like, "Yeah, this is great." Um they've got they've got I think they've got leagues now. **Ronan:** Oh, wow. **Lou:** Yeah. So, um he bought it over here. He's like, "I think I think the Australians will really go for it." Um and we did. So I was in the very first one um with Paris um Steve um a bunch of other cronies. **Ronan:** Yeah, there was heaps of us um and it was it was [inaudible] tough work. It was like 12 weeks 3 days a week. **Lou:** You were all training together in the same gym. **Ronan:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um at um uh was it called Corporate Fighter in um just at the edge of kind of sorry like the bottom of S Hills near Central down near that way sort of thing. **Lou:** Yeah. Like uh what's the place where you got to walk through the Coke machine to get into the nightclub? **Ronan:** Oh, Soda Factory. **Lou:** Soda Factory. Yeah, just down the hill from Soda Factory. Um **Ronan:** and yeah, we're there 3 days a week and the coaches were awesome. Um Luke was kind of like the head guy. Luke Jackson, his former Olympian. um like really kind of your typical like when you picture a boxing coach like small guy, nuggy, quietly spoken but when he when he speaks you're like I'm listening. Um really really really um great group of people and then um and they basically said to us at the start they were like said to us at the start they were like look if you can't make it for whatever reason you're not telling me you're not telling Mark you're not telling Tommy you're telling each other. So, it became this. It was like, "Hey guys, I'm really sorry I can't make it today because of whatever reason." And I remember one person said, "Oh, I had a we had a staff event last night, blah, blah, blah." And everyone was like, "Fucking cop out, everyone was like, "Fucking cop out, dude." Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** Not doesn't count as an excuse. It's **Lou:** like work, man. You show up, you know, you just **Ronan:** It's part of the job. **Lou:** You show up and you [inaudible] do your work. Unless you're bleeding. Unless you're bleeding or violently ill, you show up to work. Um, so we showed up to training and yeah, it changed my life. I changed my approach to mental health, which was a big part of it. That was the whole kind of driving thing behind it. Um, it changed my work. Um, I try to get to the gym and box at least once a week still. Um, even if it's just wailing on a bag, on a heavy bag for half an hour. Um, but the camaraderie of it was awesome. Like everyone who was in that group, every time we see each other, it's still, hey, what's going on? Like, you still, you know, still keeping it up. You still Yeah. You still keeping up with it. Or, you know, some of some of them have gone right into it. Like, um, Beck, forget her last name. Beck, um, she's a superstar. She's, she's now a PT specializing in like boxing training. So, her Instagram's gone from all like cocktail glasses to **Ronan:** like that sort of stuff. So, **Lou:** it's really Yeah, if if they if they do bring it back and I hope they do and you have a chance, do it. It just awesome. I came back the next year and the next I came back the next year and the next year. **Ronan:** So, they did it for three three or four. **Lou:** Well, we had we had the first one, then we had co **Ronan:** Oh, right. So, that would have put a dent that would put dent in the uh **Lou:** Yeah. So there was there was one that was like starting they were starting to do the like the first days of it and then co kind of crept in and it was like everything's getting shut down. They were training at Bondai Beach like down on the park in Bondai Beach instead of cuz they moved it to um Alims just on um off the street as you come into just at the top of Bond Junction there. **Ronan:** Um cuz it had to be outside and all that sort of nonsense. Um but we came we came back for two more years and the first year back um Mark and Raj asked Paris and I to kind of be like ambassadors for it like show up to some training sessions. Um just kind of gas the guys up a little bit. And we were out the front um of the venue when everyone was arriving. It was like, "Hey guys, come in, get out, you know, shaking hands, kissing babies," all that sort of [inaudible] hyping people up for a really good night. And then the third year, I went back kind of of my own valition. Um, but I was like, I just like I really love this program. I really want to support it. Um, and I had a couple of I actually had a couple of my guys in it that years. Um, uh, **Lou:** and employees when you at employees only? **Ronan:** No, no. This is, um, a couple years later. This is a when I was I was doing the group thing at Parliament just before I came and joined Bob and Tone. I had um uh one of the guys from Frunker and one of the guys from America were both in it and it was Dante and um **Lou:** Oh yeah, I work with Dante. **Ronan:** Dante and um what's his name? Neil's guy. This legend. Can't believe I can't remember his name right now. **Lou:** I didn't after. I didn't after. **Ronan:** Anyways um uh yeah, they were both in it. So, I came down with them and it was like, you know, kind of to keep up that ethic of like I'm, you know, kind of coaching you guys where I can at work, but I'll kind of back that up and come and throw hands with you in the gym as well. **Lou:** What do you think it would take to get it back? **Ronan:** Sponsorship is the hardest thing, honestly. Um, so the last one, uh, Scotty Scott Reed got involved as well. Um, and like I was going to come on the night when we had it at the P RSL. I was going to come and I was apparently just supposed to be in the green room helping the guys with warm-ups and stuff and I got thrown a mic, sorry, a radio and aa pass and they were like, "You're my floor. I'm your you're my you're our floor manager." I was like, "Shit." So, I end up [inaudible] running the event for well running the floor for the night. So, like, yeah, I was gassing the guys up um and like, you know, holding the ropes open for them to get in, but I was also running the raffle, the door prize. also running the raffle, the door prize. And **Lou:** unreal. What an experience. **Ronan:** Helping Yeah. helping kind of um like stage manage, I guess. **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. **Ronan:** Um and it was that was great fun. Like everyone's like like my MS and um a couple of our friends like, "Where are you? Where are you? What are you doing?" I'm like, "Apparently, I'm running the four tonight. I'm sorry. Got roped into four tonight. I'm sorry. Got roped into this." **Lou:** Hosting pretty much. No, I was I was literally I was running around like putting out fires um and helping kind of uh cuz Raj was MCing and Mikey was upstairs looking after music and lighting. So, I was kind of triangulating with them as well as getting the getting making sure the fighters are out on time. Okay. **Ronan:** Okay. **Lou:** Clearing the crowds. Hey guys coming, you know, fighters coming through like just man sort of thing. So, it was a good time. Um but yeah the when Raj and Mark called me a couple of months later they were like look would you be interested in actually taking it up like like running the thing taking it up like like running the thing cuz **Ronan:** doing what they were doing for next year **Lou:** cuz Raj like and coming out coming out from America for basically no money. **Ronan:** It's it's a very expensive hobby. You know what I mean? And he's like, "Look, you know, so I've got the camps in America." Like, and Mark was like, "I've got a bunch of [inaudible] I'm looking after in Thailand, and I'm in and he's based on um he's based on the Sunshine Coast. He's got Miss Money Pennies, which has been around for [inaudible] decades. **Lou:** I've never been before, but on the list, **Ronan:** it's on Hastings Street, the where all the um the designer think like Oxford Street, the designer think like Oxford Street, Paddington, **Lou:** right? But on the beach in Nusa, you got all the like retirees and the white shoes and like designer shops and shoes and like designer shops and anyway. **Ronan:** So they asked you to if you wanted to possibly continue it. **Lou:** Yeah. And Scott Reed, who's he's a cons he's a consultant. He's worked for he bought um Ned's Whiskey out to um launch that and a couple other things. He's been around TR for ages as well. He was kind of keen to see it. But then the biggest hurdle is getting sponsorship. Like brands are a bit funny about associating with violence. **Ronan:** Yeah. Right. **Lou:** Even though it's sport. **Ronan:** I didn't see that one coming actually. **Lou:** Yeah. I mean the very first one we we we approached Black Dog and said, "Look, this is we're going to raise all this money for you guys cuz you know, hospitality, mental health, it's a huge thing, you know, like we don't live very healthy lifestyles." Yeah. **Ronan:** You know, a lot of us drink too much. A lot of us don't sleep well enough. A lot of us have got, you know, poor sleep of us have got, you know, poor sleep cycles. **Lou:** And that all kind of builds into that mental health picture or lack thereof. Um, and that was to kind of put a nice neat little bow around it was what I got most out of this of it was just get up, get your body moving, get healthy. I lost like 14 15 kilos. What? **Ronan:** What? **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was I had a six-pack, man. Um Paris Paris Hilton, you know, he's he's a big dude and he shrunk down as well. Just like, huh, that's right. And I because I I used to be um I used to play footie and used to look like that for most of my teenage years and into my young adulthood. But then uh found found hospitality and was then uh found found hospitality and was like **Ronan:** [inaudible] catches up pretty quickly. Uhhuh. Especially with like really good food around, you know, like stuffies at some restaurants I've had where it's like here's your stuffed meal and it's just like butter and carbs and more butter and more carbs. You just like it's delicious. You're like, "Shit, I can't live on this." Like **Lou:** it's the uh it's the first world problem, isn't it? Cuz **Ronan:** it's like Yeah. You do you get to eat at a restaurant every single day and it tastes delicious every single [inaudible] time. But What's in there? **Lou:** When do you start to eat it five days a week? **Ronan:** Yeah, PA was pretty bad. Like cuz the chefs were trying to outdo each other with like dumb [inaudible] Like we had we had um we had a week of burger challenge and it was like who could make the best fried chicken burger and the winner unanimously so was Luke who's now at um uh Table Manners in Bronty which is awesome. I still got to go and check it out. um smashed up some migarang. Oh. **Lou:** Oh. **Ronan:** And the seasoning with the breadcrumbs and the flakes and stuff and it was just like and he made like a like Asian style saw and this and the other and it was just like [inaudible] off, man. But it was so good. Like crispy fried migorang like he pounded it but it's all like you could see the like little curly bits on it and everything and it was so good. But like I could feel my arteries clogging me as I was eating. That's so funny. If you can get your chefs involved with who can make it better. involved with who can make it better. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** Just just going to keep on escalating. **Lou:** Oh, mate. Absolutely. Um but that's you know it is what it is. I think it's I think that's what kind of keeps me in the game is cuz I mean we've all had those points where we like why am I still doing this or is this going anywhere or whatever. Um and it's usually through burnout. But um the thing that always keeps me coming back is that watching people like get excited about what they're making, what they're creating. Um, and the crosspollination is something I'm really encouraging at Andy's as well. Like the kitchen and the bar like working together and like feeding off each other in terms of **Ronan:** dude, it's a new thing. **Lou:** Food ideas and food science. I mean, yeah, it's it's, you know, it's it's something that's kind of been creeping in for a while now. But watching a chef taste a dish and go tasting tasting your drink and going, "Wo, I didn't know you could do that with that flavor." or **Ronan:** and vice versa as well. **Lou:** Or even suggesting saying, "Hey, have you tried adding a little bit of like salt or umami or uh you know, maybe a touch sweetener, **Ronan:** just a touch sweeter just to sort of open things up and you go back and do it and you're like, Jesus, that was really and you're like, Jesus, that was really clever." **Lou:** Getting a chef involved in your cocktail tastings is next level. Like it'll it really will do you so much good. Oh, **Ronan:** 100%. even if they're not big like I mean I know that many chefs that are just drink just love drinking beer they're not really cocktail guys or anything you know and a lot of them say I'm not really a cocktail person **Lou:** but it's the pallet they've developed over the over the years over the over the decades even **Ronan:** 100% like I've I've worked with some dudes that have taught me some really nifty tricks as well **Lou:** which is it's always fun to whip whip those sort of things out and then like for example the other day um so on the new Andy's list I know they're a bit like par now, but I don't care. They're delicious. I made a milk punch. Um I **Ronan:** dude, they're not going anywhere. No, **Lou:** No, **Ronan:** the GP is too good on them. **Lou:** Um but I made a um **Ronan:** What are you smoking on over there? **Lou:** Hey. Uh just chop shop, mate. **Ronan:** Can I have one? **Lou:** Yeah, it's um just tobacco, but um it's just chop shop from the guy down the just chop shop from the guy down the road. **Ronan:** Sorry. You were you were on a story about I got distracted. My AD kicked in. Anyway, um so um yeah, I did a um I did a porn star martini milk punch. So the vanilla element is just gelato. Um but the leftover like the curds that came off is like this passion fruit cheesecake kind of deal going on. And I gave it to chef and he's like I can definitely play with that. So he's whipped it with some cream and he's put it through a um an ISI and he's made these little buttons um and frozen them and now we've got a pett for for our favorite tables. **Lou:** Oh, unreal. **Ronan:** From something that was going in the bit, you know, **Lou:** turned curds. You turned your curds from your milk punch **Ronan:** to the garnish for the cocktail. **Lou:** Oh, no. No. Into um just a little pett for for like **Ronan:** Oh, right. So the end of a meal when you present the bill, there's like this nice little frozen **Lou:** Okay. passion fruit cheesecake kind of vibe. **Ronan:** But still, yeah, to turn to turn trash into treasure. **Lou:** Treasure. Trash into treasure. Yeah. **Ronan:** But yeah. Um, and we did it the other day as well. I've I've got I put a sangria on. Or do you want me to roll sangria on. Or do you want me to roll it? **Lou:** Yeah. I'm I'm not a cigarette smoker to be honest. But **Ronan:** I didn't give you your first one. **Lou:** You definitely didn't give me my first one. **Ronan:** That's good. That's [inaudible] bad for you. Um, yeah. Like um the other one we did a sangria I just whipped up like this little sangria sort of thing. Um and I did do you remember the strawberry spritz that I made for **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. **Ronan:** thingy where **Lou:** um tanaka **Ronan:** tanaka and the strawberry we just buried the strawberries in sugar with a little bit of lemon peel **Lou:** and then it like **Ronan:** Yeah. kind of kind of liquefied or sherbet or whatever you want to call it. So I did a similar thing for a sangria but with like watermelon and like berries like raspberry blueberries and strawberries and the leftover kind of coolieesque sort of thing that was there uh the chef just put a ribbon of it through a banana bread that he did for a special and everyone's just like oh my god that's delicious. Like just [inaudible] like that, that collaboration and that kind of bouncing ideas back and forth off each other is something that makes me want to go to work every day. **Lou:** What can we think of next? **Ronan:** Um, is there someone who is there someone who you look up to in the industry at the moment who does that really well and shows it? **Lou:** I know for a while Matt Wy had Bri. **Ronan:** Yeah. which um I never got a chance to go to, but it was kind of on like that same kind of thought pattern. **Lou:** It was on it was on that next level, man. Like their light fixtures were mushrooms or something like it was a a fungus, which is like super cool. Um never went there. Um but I think where that kind of idea of where can we how can we best make use of what we've got? Um, definitely came from my time at Charlie Parkers. Like I I mean it I always thought it was ironic that a bar that sells imported Italian water gets a sustainability award. Like just throwing out kilos of [inaudible] San Pelgro bottles at the end of the night. Just going sustainability. What? **Ronan:** Not even glass. The plastic ones. **Lou:** No, no, they were glass ones. **Ronan:** Oh, they were glass on **Lou:** recyclable. At least they're recyclable. **Ronan:** Steal the footprint to bring over from Italy. Um, and I have it on I have it on good authority that they basically um um created the sustainability award to give to Tally Parkers at bartend like we got to give these guys something cuz it's you know um but there was all sorts of cool [inaudible] like that um like oolio shety kind of thing um came from juicing lemons and limes for prep and then just burying the husks in sugar and then you've got this delicious just like then you've got this delicious just like bittersweet homemade Sprite syrup. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** And we keged it and it had it on top and it was like the house lemonade. So, let alone bitters dirt. There you go. Awesome. Um and I think that was kind of where that kind of bug bit me if you will. I'm just getting **Lou:** snowboard from there. So yeah, getting creative with things like that is just what makes me tick. Yeah. Um in terms of any one person that's doing it, Sam was I mean Sam was kind of into he he by the time I got to Charlie Parkers, he'd moved up to um sort of the office sort of stuff. Uh what's his last name? Sam. He was Mirabel was like head of beverage for forever long. Um **Ronan:** before Jimmy stepped in. **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. Um well he he's he's gone back to New Zealand actually. He's running a pro programmer there. But um yeah, Jimmy's really good at doing quirky quirky cool stuff. Um I've been watching a lot of Kate Mc Graw's stuff with the fiddly. **Ronan:** Her series her series is uh **Lou:** it's really interesting and Kate's she's a legend. I I got so much time with her. Um she had that spot in Bondi for a little bit, but unfortunately was co kind of killed that. **Ronan:** Um the little dump Japanese place, dumpling place. Um but she's she's a wonder man. Like she's got some really good ideas. I like the way her brain works. Um, and she's I like I remember watching her in her first cocktail competition to now where she is like what a superstar shaking like a leaf and a drink was like [inaudible] awesome. This is years and years ago. I think it was at Lobo maybe. I can't remember. Anyway, but yeah, I think I think she's she's one to I definitely I'm like, "Oh, wow. That's a really cool way to think about that." She's always teach like everything on her You Tube, not her You Tube, everything on her Instagram, you're like learning something every single post. **Lou:** Even I think the last one was like something to do with charcoal and I was like, I didn't even know you could do like, I didn't even know you could do that. **Ronan:** Yeah. No, no, she's she's definitely done her homework by the looks of it. Um, but I think I think her brain is one of those ones that works like that. Like of those ones that works like that. Like she is curious. Um, and I think that's a really important thing as well. Um, when you're playing with flavor and you're looking after people, you want to be curious, you know, like you want to be curious about what's going to make their night really extraordinary. You got to be curious about what you can do with fruit and booze and acid and fat now as well. You know, like the curiosity thing is the driving factor, I think. It's like kind of ties back into bouncing off the chefs. You know what I mean? Right. Just what can we do today? **Lou:** Do you um do you have a systematic method when you're creating a cocktail or you're a little bit more chaotic about it? **Ronan:** A systematic method um **Lou:** or systematic approach even like not a specific method but a systematic approach **Ronan:** for a for a list. Yes. Um **Lou:** but not for individual cocktail. **Ronan:** For individual cocktails I think **Lou:** like say like a cocktail competition cocktail. Uh, for a competition drink, um, I'll nearly always, um, I think I'll always try and tie into that brand story as much as I can. Um, obviously the brand is going to dictate the spirit except for things like world class where you can take the whole portfolio. Um, the approach for a [inaudible] the approach for a competition drink is always really different for me to a a list drink. Um, **Ronan:** Um, **Lou:** well, you're not trying to make it you're not trying to fit it in anywhere, right? Like I feel like with a list drink, you're always playing that game of where does this fit in? **Ronan:** Mhm. Mhm. **Lou:** So when that element's taken out of it Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. I think a different game. It was a really interesting one from it's just like a little sound bite um from Rob Libertans who's um the caretakers and three ponies guys. So Rob and I used to kick around a bit in um Melbourne. I was working down the road at the Alchemist and he was at the Black Pearl and he said something that stuck with me a long time ago and I saw it pop up again in a when he was doing an interview for um Caretakers and it's giving yourself um Caretakers and it's giving yourself restrictions forces your creativity in a lot of ways forces your creativity in a lot of ways like cuz if you've got these you've got X amount of rules and you kind of want to see if you can bend them or if you can get around you know, you start thinking more sort of laterally, I guess. Um whereas when it's like like you know, we all we all make the joke, you know, guess guest walks up to the bar and says, "Surprise me." And you're like, **Lou:** "Give me something." You know what I mean? Like tequila, do you like sweet? Do you like sour? Do you like give me something? you know, and I think that's kind of that's what that's what brands have definitely gotten better at with cocktail competitions, I think, over the years is like it's there's more of a a narrative, you know, um like Legacy. I got to hope they bring back legacy. I love that cuz there's always really great drinks, you know, five ingredients max, no homemade [inaudible] **Ronan:** That was a competition running at some point. **Lou:** Bicardi Legacy. Yeah. **Ronan:** Bicardi Bardi comp that doesn't run anymore. **Lou:** It was global. Um, uh, we had we've had two Aussie winners, I think. Jenna Hemsworth, I'm sure she won it, and Fred Siggins. Um, and yeah, it was you could only use five ingredients. You couldn't use if you if you had a house like a **Ronan:** like a house syrup or something. **Lou:** House syrup or something. It had to be like pretty like standard. Like it could only be one. Like I entered one year and I made a sweet and ginger sweet ginger juice like you would for a penicellin sort of thing. Um and then and that's like sugar and ginger and a bit of honey like super easy like very basically the rules for that were it needs to be replicable that were it needs to be replicable replicable like you see **Ronan:** in service. **Lou:** Yeah. Like you need to be able to send them you need to be able to send the recipe to someone in Hong Kong and they can Yeah, I can make that easy. M **Ronan:** you know what I mean? Um and I think that's great for longevity of drinks and it's so they were looking for they were basically the whole premise of Legacy was kind of create the next classic you know like the next modern classic sort of thing. Um which created some amazing drinks that were really just kind of yeah they were like anyone could really make them. the creativity came from [inaudible] I didn't think of putting that with that or you know treating this like that like off in a little bit of a tangent there. Um, to answer your question, the creating a drink, I think the approach for a cocktail competition, I think I always try to like kind of go what is what is the brand looking for, you know, where do they sit and how can I kind of embody that? Um, and then for a list drink, I always look to I I actually always look to the um the cuisine at the restaurant. Like I've been working in restaurant bars more than standalone cocktail bars now for I don't know, five, six years, something like that. But um yeah, definitely look to the cuisine for a little bit of the inspiration and a little bit of a I guess to point you in the direction of where the um where the flavor profiles will go or like what sort of spirits like you know Mediterranean at Andes. So, um, you know, there's a lot of sharing, there's a lot of wine base. Um, but also cuz it's beach side, you know, we're on the coast and the beach is right there. It's like, let's have a bit of fun with it. Um, you know, I've got a we do like a tequila Tuesday thing and I just I've called it the Fruity Boy. So, we do cheap classic mugs and then I do a Fruity Boy and it's like, oh, what's the Fruity Boy this week? it's mango or it's rockmelon or it's basically whatever's like I call the fruit guy and go hey when I'm making my weekly order what's what's really good at the moment or what's really good this week or what are you getting rid of like what's at the end of it's like sort of **Lou:** yeah you got any bananas that are kind of feeling a bit poorly like yeah man I got a box of ugly fruit or whatever you know that sort of thing um so yeah know that sort of thing um so yeah that's I guess does that answer the question you opened up a venue called Hanks. **Ronan:** Oh, yeah. **Lou:** And I think I read somewhere that um you wanted it to be described as like a your neighborhood your neighborhood bar. What is how does that influence your decisions? like when you say that you want to be a neighborhood bar, how what decisions are you taking to I don't know kind of embody kind of embody that? with any venue I think the most important thing is how the venue feels when you walk in. You know, if you want to create a fine diner, then it's really wellappointed lighting. It's, you know, very often quite flashy furniture or like, you know, beautiful furniture. Um, you know, usually like slate or gilded something. Um, you know, beautiful wine glasses, all that sort of stuff. Um the music is very kind of backgroundy and not too much of a focus point. Um **Ronan:** more of an more for the atmosphere. **Lou:** Yeah, it's more atmospheric. Yeah, absolutely. Um whereas, you know, if you want to create a nightclub, it's lights and colors and all the add stuff and and music is a key driver. You know, you've got DJ's names up on lights and stuff like that. the neighborhood bar. I think it was about being comfortable, like walking and just like, "Yeah, I want to sit here. I want to sit here and just while away and just chat [inaudible] like we are now and having a beer and not and and then being totally okay with guests doing that, you know, like, yeah, they're sitting on a beer for 2 hours. Let them there's 40 other bar stools and there's a bunch of there's a bunch of seats against the wall. Like, it's fine." Whereas in a restaurant, you know, the opposite is true. was like, you know, that spender head is what you **Ronan:** how we how we how we churn and **Lou:** well, you know, it's like, yeah, seating times are this much. And, you know, we got to make sure that, you know, ideally, you want them to have a cocktail, a bottle of wine, uh, two or three courses, and then it's do you want dessert, do you want coffee, you know, you wanting to make sure that that table is not being wasted. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. **Lou:** For one of a better word, you know, like um, **Ronan:** um, and I think with the neighborhood one, it's the neighborhood bar is Yeah. It's comfort. It's like uh Hanks. I kind of had this I kind of ran away with it a little bit cuz it was underneath Bit A few, right? **Lou:** Bit a few famous for the 12 rotating taps upstairs. And Hank's um Aaron and I discussed it and he was kind of like you know Hank's kind of this he's like the old guy that you know probably had golden gloves in the Navy at some point and he's always got a story and he's always got a yarn and he's just an affable lovely bloke that good day Hank how are you **Ronan:** and that's kind of we kind of went off that like we took that and we kind of ran with it and I was like I reckon Hank loves the blues huh he's like yeah I think so. I was like, "You got 12 taps upstairs. Let's extend that. So, let's go 12 wines, 12 beers, 12 cocktails, uh, you know, and so on." And he's like, uh, you know, and so on." And he's like, "What?" **Lou:** Actually, I think I remember you telling me this very vaguely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, continue. Continue. You got **Ronan:** So, um, I was like And he's like, "What? So, you want like 12 different vodkas? 12 different." I was like, "Fuck vodka. You only need one vodka." But I was like, "Tiff different gins. Um, obviously we want Australian bent. So, we'll have one classic London dry and then a slow and 10 other gins and we can rotate them in and out. You know, if I get sick of pouring [inaudible] fourpillars, I'll uh I'll put Never Never up for the day or for a week or I'm sure there'll be a new gin next month. So, if someone brings me a bottle and it's good, I'll put that up there for **Lou:** Sorry, correct me if I'm wrong, but this 12 of um certain things had something to do with tying into **Ronan:** Sorry. Yeah. Um, **Lou:** the bars of blues. I don't know. I feel butcher it, but **Ronan:** No, no, hangless is the blues, right? And I freaking love the blues. And the best thing about the blues is it is such a malleable genre. The Rolling Stones is you know, blind uh blind Billy Mick Telson or whatever his name is from the, you know, that that dusty delta blues. You know, the just the old black guy on a guitar. That's the blues. Bob Dylan has the blues. [inaudible] Elton John sings the blues, you know. Um there's and it's such a great uh thing that you can fill with the pacing and the feel of an evening. Like I wrote I've still got them on my on my Spotify list, but there's like early dinner blues, like late drinking blues, party blues, and you know, it's like party blues is like [inaudible] what do we got in there? We got like um bit of Arctic Monkeys. got um Black Keys obviously um some of the more like raging awesome uh AC/DC stuff like it's all blues and 12 bar blues is the one that's that's 12 bar blues that's what everyone knows or instantly recognizes blues. So it was just kind of just like let's lean right into Hank and who he is and what he's about. And so that neighborhood feel was, you know, really simple. Like there was uh the the menus weren't flashy or anything. It was literally just nice easy print offs. Um I had the block letter special board. Um was including a lot of people around like um to go back to that sort of like uh like local stuff. I was I was kind of foraging um passion fruit flowers from over the back of a Centennial Park. Um I was making a I made a orette out of the crossons that the cafe down the road were throwing out. **Lou:** Oh, unreal. **Ronan:** The other day, which is an idea I got from um Ian Griffith um the trash tiki back in the day. **Lou:** Um just [inaudible] like that. Like just like and you know like the the music's on. It doesn't like I'm standing there behind I'm in a t-shirt. My staff are just chilling. The chef would come out and just sit and have a lemonade at the bar. That kind of feel where it's like people stick their head in and go, "Are you open?" I'm like, "Technically, no, but come in." Don't get that on Oxford Street anyway. You know, like it's kind of like the pubs or the strict opening hours sort of pubs or the strict opening hours sort of thing. I think I think that was what I wanted I wanted to do. Like I went to the States many many years ago and my favorites were the dive bars. They're just [inaudible] like [inaudible] tacked to the wall. **Ronan:** Just super casual. They're not really trying too hard but everyone's having trying too hard but everyone's having fun. **Lou:** I walked into one. So, they'd been I was in Portland and I was looking for it's literally called the Rumbar and I was like kind of I've been charging around a bit all day and I was like, "Okay, before I find this place, I'm going to I'm just going to have I'm going to stop and have a pallet cleanser and um just check in with a few people who have been messaging me and I found this bar and Poland had just had this snow drift, this snow event happen. Poland doesn't get big snow events, right? But this was like an almighty dump like once in a 50 years sort of dump like once in a 50 years sort of thing. And all the salt trucks were not working properly because or they didn't have them because the mayor had sold them or something. I can't remember. But basically, there was just snow melt [inaudible] everywhere. And I walked into this dive. I saw this dive and it had like it was literally just like it was just four walls on a bar and it had those like weird fes lighting like the blinky rainbow Christmas light sort of things. There was a some sort of penny arcade game in the corner and about five or six TV screens all playing different stuff all with sound on and then like some music in the background and this woman it's like about 4:00 in the afternoon I think and I went to go in the door and there's snow melt all in the door and there's water puddles all over the floor and [inaudible] this poor woman is moing I'm like oh [inaudible] mate sorry um I'll come back and she's like no mate it's all right just mind the puddle pull yourself up a seat. I'm like, "Okay, I can sit down." And there's like a bowl of chili on one of those electric fry pans just sitting on the sitting on the edge of the bar. I'm like, she's like, "That's my mama's chili. It's It's bloody good. Like, I'm give myself a like [inaudible] $2 Budweisers and [inaudible] like that." But her hospitality was so genuine and so warm. She was just like, she heard my accent obviously. She's like, "Oh, where about you from like blah blah this that and the other." And I was just like, "This is really cool." And like I feel like I could be an absolute rat bag in here and they wouldn't bat an eyelid. But also I kind of want to respect the place because this person has been so nice to me and so lovely and just like you know you there's the D bartenders where it's like this but a lot of them are actually just just really nice people and they **Ronan:** that's I think that the whole thing of dives the bar culture doesn't like we don't have that bar culture as much in Australia. I would culture as much in Australia. I would agree. **Lou:** Like just just bars as bars. We've got pubs, which the Yanks don't have, **Ronan:** but the problem is a lot of the pubs don't have that warmth. Like, at least I don't I don't see it as much **Lou:** anymore. Like the number of pubs I walk into, and I really hate to pick on Sydney for this, but there's a heap of pubs in Sydney that you walk into and you're just like, you don't even get a high. **Ronan:** Starts with an M and rhymes with every veil. But, you know, like um in like Adelaide's got a great pub scene. Melbourne's got a great pub scene. Um, Brisbane's kind of like Sydney a bit, but it's getting better because BR Brisbane's gone hog wild with the small bar stuff. **Lou:** Um, they've got heaps of them and a lot of them are doing not all day trade, but close enough to it. **Ronan:** Um, as far as I I mean, it was like that last time I went up there anyway. But yeah, like Melbourne, you'll get a genuine get mate how I um Adelaide the genuine get mate how I um Adelaide the same, **Lou:** you know. Um, and that that feeling like even just a simple, hey Gallen, here's drinks, here's a menu, or there's a taps, what's up? It makes the world of difference. And the place can be scungy and sticky carpet and [inaudible] all over the walls and I'm like, I'm home, you know, **Ronan:** that's the feeling of a neighborhood bar, though. **Lou:** Yeah. And I think that's what pubs have had for a long time. Like my old man's I used to love it. My old man's from Adelaide originally. I'm so am I. But um he grew up around like Glenel and Norwood sort of down down near the water there. And when I was a kid on Christmas all the dads like dad's one of nine and so he's got four brothers and then plus all the married in ones like brothersin-laws on Christmas day they'd all disappear for the morning. We're like where where do all the dads go? And all the moms be sitting there like getting food ready and kitchen going at ham on that. Um, and then they'd come back and they'd all be, "Hey boys and girls, how we doing?" And realized many years later they were pissed. All right. But they go to this old local that dad took me to one year. We were down there for Christmas and I was old enough by this time and you go to this pub and all the old locals drink for free for 3 hours in the morning. And as the son of a local, I was afforded that same hospitality. And nobody goes stupid with it. Everyone has like, you know, four or five and then goes, "Right, we best be off, **Ronan:** you know, Christmas lunch is cooking." It's basically like, "Get out of the house while those who are cooking are cooking, so you're not in the way." Sort of thing. you're not in the way." Sort of thing. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** [inaudible] like that. And it's like, oh, you know, my dad, his his footy team used to go and read the they used to have their read the team sheet out on Thursday night after training there. And, you know, they'd celebrate wins there and all that sort of stuff. like a genuine local pub. And the bloke behind the bar is pushing probably 70 or 80. No, probably older than that. Yeah, probably 80 now. And he was like, "Oh." Dad's like, "Ah, Jim. This is this is my son, Phil. Sorry, this is my son Luke. He's my oldest. And that's that's his brother, Patrick, and this is my niece, Catherine." And and he's like, "Oh, good. Lovely to meet you guys. How you doing? We're all right. You old enough to drink yet?" Yeah, there you go. [inaudible] like that. You know what I mean? Um, and I see it here. I see it down here. Something that I really love about moving down here, like the beaches, I know I mean there's staff that come and go there, but the the core staff, they will know me by name. I know them by name. M **Lou:** um and not necessarily because I'm in there 3 days a week or anything, but because there's a genuine, hey, you're the once they figure out you're not a the once they figure out you're not a blowing. All right, let's let's Who are you? What's your name? Where are you? What **Ronan:** Stick around. Yeah, **Lou:** Yeah, **Ronan:** I like that. **Lou:** Yeah, it's something very special. Something very special to create. **Ronan:** It's what everyone strives for though, right? You want regulars. want people who keep coming back. You want people who are nice and enjoyable to serve. Why not just be nice and enjoy serving then? Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** Then it closed down shortly after. **Lou:** Yeah. Well, you didn't you didn't have anyone with the driver or the **Ronan:** Oh, right. Okay. So, cuz you co coowned it, right? **Lou:** It was that was that was Sam By Graves editorialism. Um, at no point did I mention that. **Ronan:** That's probably that's probably where I read that. **Lou:** At no point did I say something like that. But we had like I in I instigated the interview for Boothby. Like I said, hey, look, I know you're starting this new Boothby thing. **Ronan:** Here's a free kick for you. I'm helping. We're opening this bar under a few. And he cool. We'll tee up a interview cuz this was co and all the co [inaudible] as well. And because Aaron and I spoke both spoke on the interview over the phone like the on the interview over the phone like the chat I think Sam just kind of got the impression that I was part owner. Um so quite funny cuz I was working at Red Woollies um because of the lockdowns. And I didn't have um I didn't get Job Keeper cuz when I was at borrow um what happened? Oh, that's right. I I'd signed my contract like 3 days after the cut off period for the Job Keeper cut off period for the Job Keeper whatever. **Lou:** Um so I missed out on jobkeeper the first time around. Anyway, so I was working at Woolly's and um I saw Harriet from um Archie Bose and she's like, "I read your article. I'm so excited for you." you. And I'm like, you know, I've opened bars before. Thanks. And then I ran into Martin. Um, forget his last name. He worked for the Sammy group for ages. Um, he was the Mr. Black ages. Um, he was the Mr. Black ambassador. **Ronan:** Uh, I can put a face where, but I couldn't I couldn't put the name. **Lou:** He he lived around there. There's heaps of them. Um, he he walked past similar thing. And then uh Cosmo and um his partner Olivia **Ronan:** um Cosmo from Double Jews, **Lou:** they live behind the walls and they came in. They're like, "Hey man, saw the article. [inaudible] yeah. About time." And I was like, **Ronan:** "Okay." I went on my break. I was like, "I'm going to find this article and read it." And I was like, "Oh." And so I rang Aaron. I was like, "Hey, look, I didn't insinuate any of that." And he's like, "No, that's cool. Um do you want to have a conversation about that?" I was like, "Okay." Um, so I went in later that day cuz we were operating um bit of fuel as a bottle shop. um bit of fuel as a bottle shop. M **Ronan:** and uh he was like, "Yeah, man. If you want to if you want to look at that, um have you like do you have any money that you want to put in?" And I was like, "Not probably not enough." He's like, "What do you got?" And I was like, "I think I'm at about 10,000 at the moment." He's like, "Yeah, that that'll buy the back bar." I'm like, "Yeah, I know. Um but you know, profit share or you know, work if we want to do go down that line." And he's like, "Yeah." and he never wrote it up and that conversation kept getting buried and **Lou:** dude the highest the highest I always like yeah I would I don't think I'd ever invest in a hospitality I mean I guess it's a little bit different if you work there but in terms of like things you can invest in and increasing your portfolio a hospitality business is probably like the most risky abs [inaudible] um but I yeah I Um, **Ronan:** yeah. I just we we had a couple of disagreements about a couple of different things and I was just like, I don't trust this guy. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. So, **Ronan:** So, **Lou:** oh, [inaudible] happens. **Ronan:** Yeah, that was a fun adventure and I was Yeah, it was fun while it lasted. **Lou:** I'm going to grab beer. You want? **Ronan:** Yeah, absolutely. **Lou:** There's heaps of There's heaps of bird life around here. **Ronan:** Oh, good. **Lou:** So cool. The honey eaters as well. I've turned into a bird guy. I never thought I would be. **Ronan:** How could you not with with a backer like this? **Lou:** Well, it's a bit part of it, right? You're like, "Oh, what bird is that? What bird is that?" Anyway, **Ronan:** Anyway, **Lou:** one of my favorite things I discovered is uh Google released I mean, it was years ago now, but Google released this thing where you could search with photos. So, whenever I see like a spider or I see a bird, you just like take a photo of it and it'll be like, "Oh, this is what you look like." **Ronan:** Oh, the the Google lens. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Quite trippy how it does that. I think the first time I ever got came across that was this bloke. This is years ago. This is when I was in Brisbane, so like [inaudible] pushing 15, 20 years ago. And there was this kid that used to come in. I say kid, he was like 22, 23 maybe. And he would always ask me about a different whiskey and I'd kind of tell him a little bit about what I knew about it or whatever. And he'd always ask to have a take the photo of the label. I was like, "Oh, you just making yourself a little catalog or something like that." And he's like, "No, no, no, no. Um, I'm developing a uh like a image recognition software." And I often think about that kid and I wonder if he was like sold it to Google or something and made a **Ronan:** funny story I have about that. Wait, where did you where did you say you met this guy? **Lou:** In Brisbane. Okay, maybe it's not the same guy, but probably God, I don't know what year it was, but I was working at the winery in Star Hills at the time. And it was when I was just developing uh cocktail foam. Like I was nowhere near ready yet, but I was running trials and this dude reached out on Sydney Black Exchange was like, **Ronan:** I'm also running trials for **Lou:** this thing I'm doing. And the thing that he was doing was a stock taking app using um bottle recognition. **Ronan:** Yeah. Right. **Lou:** So he came around and I got to check it out and it was literally like a camera and you point it at a bottle and it goes it knows exactly what bottle it is and then all you're doing is putting in like what 2 if it's on the back bar. Like you just scan the whole back bar. Oh. So, it doesn't pick up the the height of the doesn't pick up the the height of the liquid. **Ronan:** It doesn't pick up the height of the liquid. No, it didn't at the time. liquid. No, it didn't at the time. Um, **Lou:** Um, **Ronan:** cuz that would [inaudible] Wouldn't that be good? **Lou:** I know. **Ronan:** Stock tag done. **Lou:** But I remember like So, this was it was not recently. So, this was [inaudible] I want to say 20, early 22 maybe. **Ronan:** Okay. Um, so if that's what he was doing back then, like the way technologies come, you got to 100% develop a bottle recognition software using AI that would make stock takes like that would make stock takes like instant. **Lou:** Surely you could e like **Ronan:** I gave you feed it the **Lou:** I gave it a quick go. I didn't spend too long on it, but um the amount of coding involved in back of house and I've got no background in coding at all. Sorry. no background in coding at all. Sorry. No, **Ronan:** No, **Lou:** I I gave up after like 6 7 hours. I was like, "This is way harder than I thought it was." But same on that same wave. Like I often think about that guy cuz I don't think he I don't think he ever sold it to anyone cuz if you if he did sell it to someone, then everyone would be [inaudible] using it, right? **Ronan:** Yeah. Well, there's the cuz the barmetrics guys, they use it's all barmetrics guys, they use it's all scales. So, they've got Cheers. **Lou:** Cheers. um all the products into this program. They've got this program whereas they scan the barcode of the bottle and then stick it on the weight and it tells you exactly how much is in there. **Ronan:** Which is pretty awesome. Um **Lou:** until you get to those weird until you get to those weird wine bottles that have got no barcodes on them and you're have got no barcodes on them and you're like **Ronan:** yeah well there's that that's that's one of the shortfalls. But then also I was like, "Oh, how's it going to work with batching in my 5 L jerry cans?" And he's like, "Uh, have you got the recipes?" I was like, "Yeah." He goes, "It's easy." And then he's got this [inaudible] like a fish scale, you know, the hook with the weight on the scale on it and he just hooks it in and just hangs it and he goes, "Yeah, there's 4.735 L in that." I **Lou:** "That's awesome." And cuz he hangs the empty one and then he hangs the full one and he knows exactly where it is. **Ronan:** Yeah. And then um it goes give me the recipe for the whatever. So say you've got batch negroni. It's like 30 m negroni 30 m gin tempari and this particular brand of vermouth and this particular gin or whatever. And it goes oh well you've got this much this much. I was like well that's easy. That's an equal parts thing. He goes yeah it works exactly the same way. Look give me something else. I'm go and I made something up on the spot. and he goes, "It'll be 2 L of this, 1 and 1/2 L of this, and this, 1 and 1/2 L of this, and whatever." **Lou:** It's altering the formula. **Ronan:** That's really cool. I mean, that it does that instantly as opposed to sitting there with [inaudible] pattern pencil and having to work it out. **Lou:** Been there way too many times. **Ronan:** Oh, yeah. Um, yeah, I worked the fastest stock taking system that I worked with was uh like halfway between the two. So it was um scan barcodes but then the device that so it was a barcode scan. It was ultimately a barcode scanner. Scan barcode and then >> what's **Lou:** what's uh your thumb has access to a keypad. **Ronan:** So for scanning a case all you got to do is scan one beer and then write is scan one beer and then write 24. **Lou:** 24. **Ronan:** But then you got to do the if you got multiple cases you got to like know the increments. 24 48 72. Um, and that was the fastest one that I've worked with. the fastest one that I've worked with. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. But **Ronan:** But to but to have it done with uh complete bottle recognition and like scanning the heights of the liquid inside of it would be um it's a [inaudible] untapped market that would sell for a lot of money. **Lou:** I reckon AI could probably manage that. **Ronan:** Yeah. Um yeah, **Lou:** this is this is what a full bottle looks like. This is what an empty bottle looks like. This is what an empty bottle looks like. Well, the thing I got stuck on when I was trying to do it was um the whole body recognition thing. You've got to teach it to recognize You've got to teach it to recognize bottles. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. So, **Lou:** So, **Ronan:** that's the first **Lou:** I was like I was like, "Oh, all the bottles are in [inaudible] Google. Can't you just pull Can't you just scrape your info from Google?" It turns out it's a little bit more difficult getting an AI to scrape images off Google than really. **Ronan:** really. **Lou:** Yeah, I'm also not I'm also not a professional in this. Like I just I just tried it. But yeah, that was that was like the main hurdle I ran into. Like **Ronan:** it's got to have access to this library of images cuz I'm not going there taking photos of every single bottle under the photos of every single bottle under the sun. **Lou:** No. I wonder if it would like crap out with like special editions. Like, you know, Darunn has always got a new label and Hennessy is another massive offender. **Ronan:** Well, that's the thing. **Lou:** I don't recognize this one. It's like [inaudible] Hennessy, man. Same shape, same size, it's just got a different sticker. **Ronan:** That's the thing. Like, if it is getting its information from Google or a its information from Google or a reliable um a reliable engine, **Lou:** then it'll recognize it. But if you're trying to develop this library yourself from scratch, you've got no chance. **Ronan:** [inaudible] Buckley, man. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. I remember um one of my first ever like sort of senior roles. **Ronan:** I say senior, I was an like like assistant bar manager sort of thing. assistant bar manager sort of thing. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** And I figured out this whole wait a minute, if I weigh the full bottle, I weigh the empty bottle. I can just do a little sum and I know exactly how much liquid I know I'm going to be able to figure out how much liquid's in there. for like your cocktail jerry cans and stuff or for regular spirit bottles? **Lou:** For just regular spirit bottles. So it was like every time I'd empty a bottle, I would save it, stick a nipper in it. **Ronan:** Oh no, sorry. Stick a stick a lid back in it and then weigh it and then when the new one when I open the new before I open the new one, I'd weigh that and I write it down. So, I had this like handwritten database of like empty weight, full weight bottles, and the plan was to put it into a spreadsheet and then cuz I I was always stuck with stocktake and we had to do it weekly at this place and I was working I was always working Sunday and it had to be in at 9:00 a.m. Monday morning every in at 9:00 a.m. Monday morning every week. **Lou:** Surely you weren't holding that much stock if you're doing it every week. **Ronan:** I mean, the back bar was fairly delicious. Um, but so two things that sped me up was, and because I was the only one ever counting it, I knew that it was probably pretty safe, but I had a piece of tape that I put on the back of the bottle, uh, where the liquid was. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** So, if I looked at it the next week, I was like, "Oh, it hasn't moved. It's the same as it was last week." And just **Lou:** Oh, okay. **Ronan:** which saved a lot of time and energy. But then I was also weighing bottles as well. And then someone pointed out to me and goes, "You know that that's what biometrics does." And I was like, "Oh, I thought I was on a million dollar idea." He's like, "No, there's like six companies that do it, man." I was like, "Fuck, [inaudible] I thought I was." He's like, "Yeah, making a spreadsheet and like being able to sell it to your mates might, you know, or give it to your mates. They might appreciate you." I was like, "No, I was going to sell it and make millions." But I was pretty chuffed at myself with coming up with the idea in the first place or like working out that Yeah. that sum to go if I weigh the full and I weigh the empty and then divide that by that that should tell me how much liquid I know exactly how much the liquid weighs like 700 mls of midori minus the glass weighs this much. Yeah, **Lou:** roughly, you know, I mean, Madori is probably a bad example cuz it's so full of sugar, but most spirits are roughly similar weight to water and water is, this is brilliant. So, the metric system, 1 milll of water is 1 cubic mm system, 1 milll of water is 1 cubic mm is.1 of a gram. Like 10 ml of water is 1 g. I'm pretty sure. No, **Ronan:** I think it's 1:1. Sorry. Yeah, you're right. But yeah, one one mm of water is one square one liter of water is one square millm. **Lou:** 1 g **Ronan:** is 1 g. Yeah, **Lou:** Yeah, **Ronan:** we got there. Amazing. **Lou:** Amazing. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah, it gets it gets different when there's when there's other vis different viscosities involved, but yeah, that's the that's the best. **Ronan:** Sugar syrup. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. Stock take your syrups. **Ronan:** This guy used to make us count this this guy was he was Scottish and say what you will about the um the stereotypes but um he used to make us count the postmix count everything like everything everything. And I was like until I came up with this weighing idea. I was like how do I so I ended up weighing that and like oh and the kegs. I was like can you buy me a set of scales so I could otherwise I'm just going dong dong dong dong. Yeah, I think it's about there. Yeah. Not the most accurate thing in the Yeah. Not the most accurate thing in the world. **Lou:** All right, let's do one of these **Ronan:** fast game. **Lou:** Let's do a fast game. Let's do the uh bar luxuries. Let's do the uh bar luxuries. Okay. **Ronan:** Okay. **Lou:** Actually, no. Actually, no. I'm going to switch it up. So, we're going to find out what your favorite I'm going to find out what your favorite uh cocktail is. And when I say cocktail, I mean like family of cocktails. Okay. **Ronan:** So, you got to you got one to drink for the rest of your life. The first one you got to choose is between high balls or got to choose is between high balls or muggs. **Lou:** High balls. Um, we've got high balls or martinis. **Ronan:** Oo, high balls. **Lou:** Um, high balls or dairies? Daries. **Ronan:** Daiquiries or spritzes? Daries. **Lou:** Daries. **Ronan:** Daiquiries. **Lou:** And then we've got daiquiries or sours. **Ronan:** Dary is a sour. **Lou:** Yeah, I guess so. I guess so. You've got me. You got me on that one. **Ronan:** Um, all right. Daries or oldfashions? **Lou:** Daries. and daiquiries or negronis. **Ronan:** So like your bulvadas, americanos, like different variations of negrroni. **Lou:** I'm gonna stay with daggeries. **Ronan:** Daries is the winner. **Lou:** It's a hard to beat spirit sweet citrus. Yum. **Ronan:** What? Um you're walking into Lobo. Mhm. **Lou:** Mhm. Tomorrow. **Ronan:** Tomorrow. Mhm. **Lou:** Mhm. **Ronan:** What's the first What's the first daiquiri you have and what rum? **Lou:** Their house. They still do it. Their house blend. It's far and away the best I've ever Yeah. **Ronan:** Um, so a little bit of agricol in there. I think Paris and Mary developed it years ago. And yeah, without a doubt. **Lou:** That or nuclear if I'm feeling frisky. **Ronan:** Nuclear D. Yeah, they come back. **Lou:** Speaking of, are you going to I'm going to feel really bad if it's already happened, but are you going to um Kittyhawk's last No, **Ronan:** No, **Lou:** last call. **Ronan:** Won't be able to make it. Um Paris did call me and tell me about that. um which he was obviously pretty gutted about. Um but I never actually got to the new iteration. So kind of feels like a I said before at the very start, you know, like Sydney loves an open, they also [inaudible] love a close. **Lou:** Oh yeah. **Ronan:** I think Cosmo said it in an interview with um someone the other week. Um but yeah, it's **Lou:** I'm spewing I didn't get to make it to his uh **Ronan:** Yeah. Um my MS was in town for that one. **Lou:** I think her cuz she's really good mates with Barl. um who used to be there. Have you been to demo yet? Their bar. **Ronan:** Um I haven't been there as like a guest, but I handed some cocktail in there. **Lou:** Oh yeah. Go go go and have a drink with Church and um Barl. It's **Ronan:** cuz they opened they came from um Rascals and Duce, right? **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. Church was at Rascals for a solid while then went over to Juice. I think that was always kind of the plan. And then Barl, she came, she she actually came and crashed on my Paris's couch uh when she moved over here from WA and then co um and she trailed at Baxter and she trial at Juice and she went with Juice and she stayed there for like three four years I think I think. But yeah, and she's she's a weapon as well. She she makes some excellent drinks and she's a lovely human. She's my fiance's one of my fiance's besties. So, can't fault her. And demo is a great bar. It's awesome. **Ronan:** Yeah. I've got to go check it out. Got **Lou:** Yeah. Do it. **Ronan:** Are they more What are they more wine or cocktail focused? **Lou:** Um, they were always going to be sort of wineled, but when you got those two making cocktails, you're in good hands. They've got like a **Ronan:** They're going to sell **Lou:** the their equipment. It's just We were talking about equipment before. It's like this is like I may have had a like this is like I may have had a little um like freezer freezer fridges this tall like open it up and it's just all glassear. Um they've done they've made it it's a listening room essentially like it's kind of like the new thing I think. it's kind of like the new thing I think. Um Joey Ties opened one in Melbourne. [inaudible] Maraveal did one the red one on the corner next to **Ronan:** uh Jam. **Lou:** Jam like a record bar, right? um or like a listening room, so all the acoustics are like at the forefront. Antie in New Town that's more of a restaurant. Um but yeah, the their acoustics are amazing. They play vinyl. Um their wine list is exceptional, but probably safe bet to say the best martini in that corner of of Sydney without a doubt. **Ronan:** [inaudible] yeah. Little little little plug for those guys. Hey, they deserve it. Mhm. **Lou:** Mhm. **Ronan:** All right, let's give you let's give you bar luxuries. Mhm. **Lou:** Mhm. Um **Ronan:** Um All right. What's more important for you? Mhm. **Lou:** Mhm. **Ronan:** Clear ice. **Lou:** Clear ice or chilled glassear? **Ronan:** Chilled glassware. Um, If **Lou:** you only had one. **Ronan:** I can only have one. **Lou:** You can only have one. They both expedite speed of service They both expedite speed of service though. Why you going to do this to me? Um, look, the way I design my drinks, prep service, uh, prep shift. **Ronan:** Prep shift **Lou:** cuz I can seal my glasses to water. I guess **Ronan:** you can, um, prep shift or a dedicated barback. **Lou:** Prep shift. **Ronan:** Prep shift or a reverse osmosis glass washer? Um, well, if I if I've got a prep shift and not a barback, I definitely want an osmosis washer. So, yeah. **Lou:** Um, and then the last one to choose from is a reverse glass washer or a crushed ice machine? **Ronan:** Glass washer. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. **Ronan:** I saw Steve's take on that and he's like, I can use it for all these different things. I'm like, bro, like I get it. I get his logic. But to me, yeah, crushed ice is is an absolute luxury. And also, I worked with Simon Mc Gorum at Neighborhood where he made us crack our ice from Mjitos per drink. Have you ever seen one of those things? Ice cracker? **Lou:** Uh, you're not talking about the bag and the mallet. **Ronan:** No, no, no. It's a little It's like a piece of plastic about this long. **Lou:** Yeah. And at the end it's got like a square and in it it's got it's like a perfectly about the size of a 50 cent piece, right? **Ronan:** right? **Lou:** It's like a not quite a ball, but it's like more like a kind of a that shape. like more like a kind of a that shape. M **Lou:** of metal and it's really whippy. **Ronan:** So you hold a piece of ice in your hand and you go and it shatters the ice and he was Simon Mc Gor is one of the ultimate cocktail nerds. That guy is **Lou:** is that's what it's meant to be used for as well. **Ronan:** Yeah. hair is crack and you like so you do like two or three cubes and you drop it on top of your mjito like so when you see those old like um old cocktail books where it's like cracked ice that's what they're talking about like you get a big lump of ice cuz that's what they had ice machines back then and you literally smash it into pieces and then **Lou:** use it like that so he was a stickler for that I was like yep that's how we do our cobblers that's how we do our mjitos that's how we do our I was like oh on a busy night your hands would be like red raw from holding Nice and impact. **Ronan:** You can't do this anymore. **Lou:** Yeah. But yeah, **Ronan:** I remember work I remember going back to working in bars without um reverse osmosis glass washers after working bars in them and you're like the [inaudible] We're just [inaudible] pouring money down the drain. We're pouring money down the drain just polishing glassware for [inaudible] hours. I said it to the guys at Andy's when I first walked in cuz I had an old dinky one. I was like, "We probably want to invest in a proper rice ice ice uh sorry, glass washer and probably need a bigger ice machine as well, just judging by the size of this place." And this is before a lick of booze has been bought at all. It's still a bomb site. The kitchen is still waiting on their target top and their oven and all that sort of [inaudible] And he's like, "Oh, how much they cost?" I'm like, "They're not cheap." And he goes, "How how's not how not cheap is not cheap?" I'm like, "You're looking at 10k 10k new. Probably 5k if you can find a secondhand one." But you don't tend to find secondhand ones cuz **Lou:** dude, I wouldn't want to I wouldn't if I ever owned a bar, I wouldn't want to get a secondhand one because the minute you stop taking care **Ronan:** of one of those things, they will they'll shoot you in the foot. **Lou:** Yeah. So we went the first six months without and every night second seating I'm standing there [inaudible] polishing like a [inaudible] two bartenders smashing out drinks in a sharing a very small well and I'm standing there just trying to keep up with glassware and this continued on and continued on and then just before I left Trent like he he turned I turned around him I said you realize like cuz we were constant it was a constant back and forth about wages I was like you realize that spending 10 grand on one of those things is going to save you 40 grand over the course of a year. He's like, "How?" I'm like, "You're not paying a glassy." He's like, "Huh?" I'm like, "You can pretty much go down to one bartender on a Friday night or one good bartender on a Friday night. You'll still need two on a Saturday, maybe on a Friday night as well, but you won't need two people behind that bar at all." He's like, "All right, one shift with it." I think I crunched the numbers once and obviously it's like going to be a little bit different for everywhere, but the result that I ended up getting was that that 10,000 I think I did 8,000. My calculations was worth 8,000 cuz I think it was maybe winter was cuz I think it was maybe winter was $8,000. **Ronan:** And that $8,000 glass washer is paying for itself if you plan to stay open more than 2 years. **Lou:** 2 years pay for itself. **Ronan:** Easy. Um yeah, like I in my head it was a rough calculation. It was like 25 bucks an hour. Call it 20 hours a week. It's 400 bucks. Sold itself. Yeah. 400 bucks a week for 10 weeks. It's $4,000. So paid it's paid for itself in a month. Um it's probably a bit rich, but yeah, the absolute godsend. The first time I saw one in action, I was just like, "Oh, where have you been all my life?" **Lou:** When did um when was the first time you saw one? **Ronan:** Uh it was in Melbourne and uh what's the name just opened? Um it's on top of the Rialto Tower. Uh I can't remember the name of the restaurant, but it was like it was like full flight. They went all out. uh guy called Sebastian Rabburn headed up the design the fit out and everything **Lou:** had some good investors **Ronan:** these people like this is it was part of it's part of a group um but yeah like I went I actually went up there and had lunch once um some very kind bosses bought myself and another person my offsider lunch for opening their bar cuz they realized how hard we'd work to get it done and um it's just magnificent But um Seb was giving me the walk around the tour cuz my house I was in there selling used to be the brand ambassador for Tambourine Mountain Distillery, the Queensland company. And um he was giving me the walk around and my housemate at the time was also working at the bar there. And they they did they were they lent right into the Aussie stuff like they were like, you know, we're going to do this and that and the other. They did like a koala bear martini with like a koala bear martini with like eucalyptus reverse osmosis [inaudible] roabat crap. And I was like, I got to put this worker right here and it's not going to poison anyone cuz you don't know what you're doing. He's like, I do, but I'll take a bottle just in case. Anyway, um he goes, "Check this out. This machine, reverse osmosis. It uses like a [inaudible] quarter of the chemicals that anything else does." And it's this, that, and the other. And then, **Lou:** wait, I'm getting confused here. Are we still talking? But we're not talking about glass washers anymore, are we? about glass washers anymore, are we? Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. **Lou:** The glass the reverse osmosis glass washer, **Ronan:** right? When did how does eucalyptus vodka come in? **Lou:** I was so sorry that's just me painting a picture. I do that sometimes. Okay. **Ronan:** Okay. **Lou:** Um but no, like basically there was like every single glass was Ryell. It was all [inaudible] those humongous **Ronan:** really beautiful. Like I got greeted at the door and the matra is like immaculately presented and was like can I take your bag for you? And I was like no I need it cuz I'm going to the bar. So he was a bit thrown. He was like what? Nobody ever says no. I'm like it's full of booze. Anyway, um but yeah, like the big huge burgundy glasses. Um and they're all like super thin like the top of the line stuff. I'm like, "Man, are you guys afraid of breaking those?" He's like, "Nope, watch this." And he shows me the like the those grates with the separate like compartments and his wine is like lipstick and [inaudible] on them wine is like lipstick and [inaudible] on them and wash it. We're talking and then he goes, "Ding, okay." He pulled it open. He goes turns them all upside down. They're steaming. I'm like, are you going to apologize? And he's like, watch. I'm like, [inaudible] off. Watch. And so we're sitting there talking, talking, talking. Then he goes, there you go. And hands it to me. I'm just like, wow, how much that cost you? And he's like, more than it's more than you like, more than it's more than you think. I think they were like back then they were like, cuz I just come into the country. I think they're like 15, 20, something eye watering like that. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** I'm like, " $20,000 for a [inaudible] glass water?" And he's like, **Lou:** " $50,000 a year for a bartender, mate." I'm like, **Ronan:** Fair enough." So, but yeah, it was a while before they started becoming readily accessible. I think people were prepared to pay for them. people were prepared to pay for them. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. through your through your many opens and through your through your many opens and career. **Ronan:** That's one of the things where it's like, okay, here's a huge upfront cost, **Lou:** but it's going to save you in the long run. Is there any other mistakes that you've seen that's a kind of similar a similar concept where **Ronan:** it's a hu it's not like it's a pretty good upfront cost but if the place is going to stay open **Lou:** money worth spending at the start **Ronan:** what are your top what are your top five money worth spend at the start **Lou:** furniture [inaudible] absolutely comfy **Ronan:** comfy **Lou:** you want something durable **Ronan:** durable durable **Lou:** everything um Andes is a one. Um, so the guys that own it, they're all lovely BS, but one runs a digital media company, one runs he's a white collar builder. His office is Bob and Tone, actually. **Ronan:** Guy called I probably served him before. **Lou:** Yeah, I I served him at He saw me. I was running around like a blue ass fly on a Friday afternoon one day at Bob and he's like, "Luke, right?" And I'm like, "Hey, what's going on?" Like, "Yes, I'm Lou. Sorry, how are you? He goes, "Pat, Pat, move over you. I met you the other week." Oh, [inaudible] Get Pat. Yeah. Yeah. Nice to see you. Can't wait to get down in there. He's like, "Yeah, bit slower than this this pace, won't it?" I'm like, "Yeah, hope so." Um, but yeah, he's a builder. And the other guy is Ben, who's uh he runs yours and ours festival, so music promoter. Um, and they've all kind of dabbled in hospitality at one point or another, but they've never actually been operators. **Ronan:** And their furniture, the initial furniture that we bought was all very furniture that we bought was all very pretty. but it wasn't stackable and it was bit flimsy. Um, and the tabletops are beautiful. Like they're um granite, but they didn't um pay the extra to get the like a like a rubber or like a sealant on the outside. So, a lot of them have chipped on the edge. I saw more than one person sit on the seat and um we since replaced them we spent like after that happened was like what do you reckon? What do you reckon? I was like bentwoods and you know they're really classic. He's like oh they're a bit I'm like they won't break. They will not break. You you can slam them against the wall and they will not shatter. They will not break. Like you really got to you got to go at them to get them to bust. And he's like, "Okay, I trust you. How many how many do you think we need?" And I kind of like counted what I thought and then added like I think another 10%. He's like, "That's a lot of chairs." I'm like, "Trust me." And not one of them's been replaced yet. Um, and they are easil easy to kind of hide away. So, yeah, furniture definitely worth spending your money on cuz it's not something you want to replace on the regular. Um, music like sound system. I think it's absolutely worth spending money on. I mean, I'm a fiend for music. I constantly listen to it. I'm constantly writing myself playlists for whatever. Um, I write playlists for venues all the time. It's a hobby of mine. Like, I collect vinyl. Like, music to me is so super important. On like a side note, I've never I've never um dived in it, but what's the what's the legalities behind playing music in a venue? Like behind playing music in a venue? Like say **Lou:** um as long as you're playing as long as you're paying opera, they'll pretty much leave you alone. **Ronan:** Paying who? **Lou:** APA. The Australian Professional Recording Artists Association. **Ronan:** So that includes everything what like on Spotify or **Lou:** Yeah. um they were kicking off a stink about Spotify many years back then soon realized they couldn't really fight it cuz well people were saying I don't need to pay you cuz I pay Spotify and Spotify pays the artists obviously you all know that's a [inaudible] load of [inaudible] so what it is is it's about copyright where the where it gets gray is about the copyright infringement stuff. So you're not you you aren't licensed to Spotify isn't licensed for public for public broadcast. Yeah. **Ronan:** But if you pay appa and appa is kind of like a union/governing body kind of they're they're yeah a governing body for music live and recorded in Australia. So musicians pay like when if you and I formed a band, we would join opera and then they would go into bat for us if we heard our music being played on Triple J and went hang on a second. Like awesome, **Lou:** but also **Ronan:** how are we going to compensate? **Lou:** We're not doing this for free. **Ronan:** Um so they'll go they'll go knock on Triple J's door and go, hey, if you're going to put these guys on rotation, you need to send them a check. um or the Australian government or whatever. Triple M, any of that sort of. But they're kind of like that. They're the the union bosses. Um and they'll call venues from time to time go, "Hey, you haven't we noticed you're open and you haven't joined a subscription for Appro." And it's like, "Oh [inaudible] I better do that." Yes, thank you. Please send me They take your card over the phone now these days. They'll send you an email and you call them back and there's a code and everything. It's all legit. But um yeah, Spotify was a real gray area for a long time. Um but even before Spotify, like using I remember working in bars where where I had a 10 CD stacker and that's how you'd make the playlist. You'd be like, "Okay, I'm going to play that CD, then that CD, and if the mood changes, I'm going to eject CD for and put another one in." And it's like half Um that was good. and you know mix CDs and all that sort of [inaudible] helped as well. Um but then also it's much easier just to hire a DJ for the night or put live bands on. And even if you have live bands playing original music, you still play opera. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** Um it just covers all bases. Um I mean there's different subscription levels for different things. So like a cafe won't pay the same amount as a live a dedicated live music venue. like **Lou:** rascals will pay rascals will pay cuz they have live music two nights a week or one night a week I think it is **Ronan:** but they also play pipe stuff so there's it's yeah it's a sliding scale thing yeah it's a sliding scale thing interesting **Lou:** interesting **Ronan:** I didn't know that **Lou:** yeah know there's there's [inaudible] what do you call it regulation regulating body that was the one I was looking for um there's regulation for all that a lot of that stuff and it's I don't know the minutiae of it But that's the general idea. Pay those guys and they make sure that their guys get paid. **Ronan:** So, we're not skimping on we're not skimping on uh music systems. **Lou:** Yeah. No. Um it's I think it's so important. Um good quality music. Like maybe I'm a bit more of a stickler than other people are. Like some people don't seem to care, but I think it's one of those subconscious things that people pick up on. Um whether it's poor quality sound or the music's not right or definitely if it's too loud. Yeah. **Ronan:** Even if it's too quiet, **Lou:** sometimes you walk in, this place is dead. **Ronan:** All you need to do is turn the music up Um, conversely, I think something that a lot of people pay way too much money for, they don't need to pay money for is convoluted lighting systems like the one at Bop and Tone. **Lou:** Yeah. Like the the pre-programmed [inaudible] Use your eyes and the dimmer switch. It's so much easier. And if you need to, you can draw a little notch where I literally did that at a couple of venues where you got the old dimmer switch and it be like **Ronan:** like during winter hours it's like at 5:00 it's here. At 7:00 it's here, at 9:00 it's here. And then come summer when daylight savings happens, you wipe it off and you start again and you mark it off again. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** That way you don't have to do it. You just, hey, can you just do it to the next notch? But these pre-programs, it's never right and you've always got to reprogram it and no one knows how to reprogram it. Like I remember at Bo and I was like asking Ollie, I was like, "Can you show me how to fiddle with the lighting a bit?" And he's like, "Yeah, whatever. What do you reckon? Like you seem to be on it. You seem to be conscious of it all the time." I was like, "The pre-programs are all a bit meh." And he's like, "Yeah, I know." Like, "Do we know how to reprogram?" He's like, "No, but I'll find out for you." And then it was going to be a whole thing. You know, some guy comes in from he was coming out from Melbourne next month and do you know what I mean? next month and do you know what I mean? Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** Or for when you could just go, I want that light off and I want that life on and I want that one a bit dimmer or I want that one a bit brighter. want that one a bit brighter. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** We've been doing it that way for [inaudible] decades. Don't [inaudible] with it. **Lou:** Uh what else do you need to spend money on? Staff. **Ronan:** What do you mean by that? I think you need to pay people what they're worth and I think you need to be realistic about what they what their role expectations are. If you if you pay someone, **Lou:** you know, $65,000 as a bar manager, **Ronan:** don't expect them to be looking after hours and wages and all the other stuff and rostering the entire venue. Um because that's not what a bar manager bar manager manages the bar. You know what I mean? Um, I think yeah, if you if you spend if you if you're prepared to spend a little bit and help them grow into a role or help them develop and expand their role, it's a lot cheaper than trying to hire someone else when that guy gets fed up and walks out. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** You know what I mean? **Lou:** Oh, yeah. Like I've seen it too many times over the years where people myself included were like, "Man, I can't believe I'm expected to do all of this, but I'm only getting paid this. I'm doing the work of a venue manager, but I'm only a bar manager. I'm only a bar manager salary." **Ronan:** That's literally what you're relying on. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** It's it's such a huge portion of what you're relying on is a human. So, if that human doesn't feel like it's been **Lou:** valued, then what's the output, you know? **Ronan:** Yeah. and and replacing replacing someone who knows the business, knows the systems, knows the the menus and knows everything there is to know is not as easy to replace as a broken is not as easy to replace as a broken dishwasher. **Lou:** Yeah. Well, it's all that time like learning like all that time learning is spent time not developing the business spent time not developing the business and **Ronan:** reinvesting in someone as well. You know, it's cheaper to reinvest in someone than it is to try and find the next person. And in you know especially in our sorry I think especially in our industry without getting too political but I think in our industry because we do all know each other and we do all talk and we a bunch of us have worked together in different places at one time or another or we go and visit each other in our workplaces. I don't know many accountants that go and do a guest shift at the accounting uh you might get some brickies as you know some some builders that go and help each other on different job sites but for the most part I think hospitality is so unique in that the people within it are relatively tightknit like we have social occasions like um you know brand uh master classes and bartender boxing or Sydney bar week for you know for a large scale And you see people, you know, people like Sydney bar week is always fun because it's like, all my friends are coming to town from all the other cities and I get to catch them up, you know, and it's people that I've worked with or people that I've, you know, work next door to or down the road from or whatever. So, if you're getting slighted, that's going to that word's going to spread pretty quickly. Like, I think **Lou:** [inaudible] operators only last so long before people go, I'm not working for them. And you can see a noticeable decline because they've had the they've had the really good people in the right spots and then they've had to replace them, but that person when they get fed up and they walk out, they tell all they tell their mates and they go, "I don't work for those guys. They're clowns." So they get to they find the next lot of people who may not be as people who may not be as informed **Ronan:** informed or as as highly skilled as the first guy, you know, like it's it kind of happens that way where, you know, the the the best smellers in the city kind of kick around with each other. The best bartenders in the city kind of kick around with each other and so on and so forth. So as that word gets around, it's like don't bother working with that guy. Okay, I won't. people pass up the job and then slowly the people that they can hire this the quality is dropped because they haven't necessarily heard about it and then that guy gets chilled and he [inaudible] off. So he tells all his next level mates and so all of a sudden you're left mates and so all of a sudden you're left with a room full of students and backpackers who don't really give a [inaudible] about the job. They show up to get paid and then they [inaudible] off. You know what I mean? **Lou:** Oh yeah. **Ronan:** And I've seen venues I've seen it happen to venues. **Lou:** Yeah. I've seen it for a few as well. **Ronan:** Um, but yeah, so look after your staff and it's worth they're worth the money that you put in front of them. I think that five. **Lou:** I wasn't counting. But uh yeah. No, that's a [inaudible] very good point. **Ronan:** Glass washer. Um, let's go one more just I think I think Well, I mean, yeah, equipment. I don't I don't think you have to I don't think you have to have the best of the best of the best of equipment. I think maybe investing time in your setup is probably more the the money pit that could then you know you can have the best equipment and the best top of the line everything but if your line if your work line both in the kitchen and in the bar if it's no the kitchen and in the bar if it's no good you're screwed. I was talking about this the other day actually, like if you're making a drink, how many steps does it take you to make a drink? Like, can you streamline the amount of steps you're actually taking? Like, if you've got to walk over here to grab that and walk over here to grab this, like **Lou:** yeah, to to think about it in that in that aspect is going to be a huge saver. **Ronan:** Uh the triangle the triangle, which is something I adopted from the kitchen where it's pick it up, cook it, put it in the sink. Pick it up, cook it, put it in the sink. like you're going like that and the bar is no different. Like why would it be? You know, picking up glassware, putting on the bar top, making your drinks, putting stuff in the bin, empty bottles over here. So, you're just constantly moving in a circle. Um, and I guess, you know, if you like you sort of open and you go, "Ah, that's sink that sinks over there. That's fine." It's like, well, no. If you've got the money and you can afford to bring it 6 in or foot closer and if you or if you you know if you've inherited a space for example and you've got stainless that's a bit hit and miss **Lou:** couple of dents or two dents or two in it **Ronan:** or if it's like just **Lou:** falling apart. **Ronan:** I mean you you would have stepped behind bars where there's stainless you've looked at the stainless setup and you've gone how on earth did anyone think this was a good idea? Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. I did a I did a few I did like a month at Hotel Toto before Andy's asked me to come back and just looking at I was like this makes my brain hurt. The beer taps are here. The water taps are on the next counter over at the Pereza system instead of next to the beer taps. The wells here and it's this big. And there's one of those really the recessed um spirit uh like **Ronan:** the wells speed rails. It's like a recessed one, but then it's like it's got that shitty little drain there that no one ever uses cuz they always make the drinks up in the bar, but then the bar is too far away to really make drinks up there, like pour drinks up there. Like I'm I'm I've got to reach and I'm like, that's a bit of a stretch. So, you're making drinks in front of the ice, right next to the It's like **Lou:** Yeah. Whoever designed this, like what in the world was this person thinking when they designed it? **Ronan:** Yeah. the top of the when I was working at the winery, the top of they've got a bar upstairs. The regular bar is fine, but the top the top bar on level one, the uh entire station to be working at it, you're facing your back. It's like your back's facing the entire well and the station is behind like so you're facing the whole time you're making a drink, it's you're turning your making a drink, it's you're turning your back. Yeah. **Lou:** Cuz that was supposed to be opened as like a champagne room or something for like a champagne room or something for memory. **Ronan:** It was. Yeah, it was originally a champagne room. So the urinal upside down in the in the in the men's just like Gym Palace. **Lou:** Yeah. Yeah. Upside down urinal. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. That's a Yeah, there was one there's a bar in Melbourne that had the same thing. And a guy who opened that second bar, guy called uh Jason Wedge. Uh Jason W is his nickname. Jason um forget his last name, but Wij of Widget's Gin. He was the guy who opened that bar up there cuz he used to be the group manager for the company for the winery gazebo section 8. Oh no, not section 8. Um **Lou:** that was when it was owned by uh Dixon Hospitality maybe or even before. **Ronan:** Before that they I can't remember what they were called but they were kind of like neck and neck with Maraveal and then Maraveal went **Lou:** and these guys kind of dropped off. So it was they had a P point hotel with kitten kle upstairs and they had like a cargo bar um and the one above it I forget down in on the warf. **Ronan:** Uh below cargo is **Lou:** cargo is down low and then up top there's another one. **Ronan:** I mean now it's still now they're called the same venue like it's but I don't know what it used to be called. **Lou:** Yeah. Anyway, we set a bartender exam up there one year, but yeah, they had heaps there one year, but yeah, they had heaps um and the winery was one of them and they were like gunning to kind of go neck and neck. They had the one in the city, the gin bar in the city up on the rooftop. Um serve lobster rolls. This is what I mean. Like it used to be like everyone was like this place is amazing and it's just gone because they didn't pay their staff properly. They didn't look after the right people. So they ended up with a bunch of backpackers and transient stuff and it's just you go out there now and it's just like peronis and [inaudible] appal spritzes. That's all they really need to stock. That's all anyone knows how to make. And even the apperal spritz is like that doesn't Yeah. Anyway, **Ronan:** I did a uh I did a podcast with Milhouse who shouted you out. **Lou:** A what a guy. Well, I don't know if he I don't if he shouted you out, but he definitely mentioned you. Said he did some did some awesome uh work on Facebook during the during the lockdowns when he was starting his little **Ronan:** Facebook. That was good. That was good fun, man. That was really good fun. We did the um **Lou:** the what was it? The network news something. Yeah, **Ronan:** Yeah, **Lou:** we're just taking a piss. Um **Ronan:** Um **Lou:** Nicole Nicole Reed did a weather a weather report from the from the weather report from the from the kitchen. It's very funny. Sounds like a lot of It's very funny. Sounds like a lot of fun. **Ronan:** I did I did like a sports caster thing. Something about cockroaches running racing up a window wall or something and ants getting scurrying because the bin day next bin day is tomorrow or something dumb like that. That was that was a that was a that was his kind of thing and it was one of those like just those little blips of fun creative distraction from being locked inside for 2 years. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** Um I got a lot of time for that guy, man. He's he's Um really really nice bloke. Um I think he identifies as them now. Can't remember. Anyway um I first I I first met them um hair down to his backside. I was working at Dan Murphy's a spirits purchaser person or something like that and was just always at the spirits tastings and um master classes. And one day curiosity get I was like what's your name man? what bar you work at? I haven't seen you anywhere except tastings. And he's like, "Oh, no. I work for Dan Murphy's. My name's Dan. How you going?" New house. I was like, "Hey, everything's coming up." He's like, "Yes, everything's coming up." But we clicked instantly. And then he started I think his first bar gig was um Ceda. **Lou:** Yeah. It was actually [inaudible] wild hearing his story cuz it **Ronan:** it um is kind of backwards to what **Lou:** your regular your regular guy who's getting involved in hospital. **Ronan:** Yeah. He kind of went he went selling booze high-end cocktail bar kind of down to the dock like a dive bar. The dock's a dive bar. That's one of Australia's few like like That's one of Australia's few like like legit cuz they're open or they used to be open all day every day. **Lou:** They closed down. **Ronan:** Yeah, I know. I was gutted. That was one of the ones I was like, "Oh, I really want to get back to her last night." want to get back to her last night." Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** It would have been absolutely deport. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** The original owners were his two brothers years and years and years ago. I was working at low 302 and um they were rat bags. Absolute [inaudible] rat bags. They closed the shop early cuz they heard low was popping off. So they'd literally close the bar early, come down the road and rage. **Lou:** Were you at the um were you at low in the periods where this is before I was working at the winery, but I used to hear that the staff from low and the staff from the winery were super tight and they used to go drinking at each other's venues after. **Ronan:** Yeah. Hey, we used to get we used to get hit like it was always like kind of like all right, here comes a midnight rush and it's just these winery kids just flooding on a $10 steak cuz we used to do a we used to do $10 meals um all night and it was aim squarely at um all night and it was aim squarely at hospital. **Lou:** We had like a a minute steak and some chips. It was a burger and then like a pasta dish or something. **Ronan:** So all come in get that. Um, and yeah, when like if we had if we had a long day, like a prep day, and then cuz we weren't during the day, we had a prep day, we go there and have a beer and a bite to eat. But, um, there was a red hot minute. I was kind of at the tail end of it, but Lo 302 was like the hospital hangout for a good long while. hospital hangout for a good long while. Um, it was just this like lightning in a bottle sort of place. Like, it was weird. the owner RF was bit of a nar but love was super passionate about music um and happens to be best mates with Daniel John's um and so you get a lot of Australian rock and roll luminaries hanging out there um at times looked after something for Kate saw the Powderfinger boys once or twice which is always nice cuz I knew them in Brisbane um old mate from and then touring artists as well Like I'll never forget one night. This is like one of my like one of those like I almost lost my cool sort of moments. Um myself and another guy called Benoy um who'd been there for years and years as well. Lovely guy. We were closing the bar down like kind of just slowly packing it down. It's pretty dead night. And this big heavy guy like [inaudible] you And this big heavy guy like [inaudible] you know like pretty pretty staunch dude walks in and you know asking a very thick American accent. He's like oh hey um you know what's good what's good to drink in this town you know like has Sydney got something and I jokingly said you should have a whiskey apple. Benoy is like [inaudible] off man that's a shady pine drink. We're sick of making whiskey apples and I clean the juicer and I'm like whatever. He goes oh whiskey apple what is that about? I'm like, "Fresh juiced apple, your choice of whiskey. I recommend your choice of whiskey. I recommend blah, right?" I think I said he goes, "Damn, that sounds Yeah, I'll get one. Let me get one of those." I'm like, "Cool, man." And like, Ben starts making it. And I'm chatting to him, taking his payment like I hear the accent. You You've been in Australia long. Are you just visiting? Like, what's the guy? And he goes, "Oh, yeah. No, I'm just in town. I'm I'm playing playing some music. I actually played at the Oxford Art Factory just now. Played tomorrow night. Did sound check tonight." And I was like, "Oh, cool. Um, what do you play?" He's like, "I'm a DJ. Been doing it for about 25, 30 years." I was like, "Oh, um, what's your DJ name? Maybe I've heard of you." And he goes, "Uh, yeah, cut chemist. You may have heard of me." I'm sorry. Did you say cut chemist? He's like, "Yeah." I'm like, "Man, I don't usually do this, but I am a massive fan. I saw you on tour with DJ Shadow when you guys did that 45s thing with the all the It's a pleasure to meet you, my friend. That one's on us. He goes, "Cool, man. Thank you. I'm going to have some of my friends who arrive and they're going to I'm like, take whichever table you want, man. Just go and sit." And Benoy comes over and he goes, "Did you?" I was like, and he walks away. And I [inaudible] jump pushed like like I went to shove him, but I jumped in excitement. So, I ended up flying backwards. And I was just like, "Gamas is in my [inaudible] bar." And like we're having this like little minor freak out in the Oh no. Oh, **Lou:** I thought that had fallen off. **Ronan:** Um having this minor freak out behind the bar out of sight of him. I'm just like like the only time I've ever been like really starruck. Just **Lou:** I don't even know how I got on to that. For a deaf guy, I'm seriously fascinated by sound. half deaf. **Ronan:** Wow, that one's 80 something loss and this one's about 20. So, yeah. **Lou:** God damn. Hearing aids on the cards or is there have you ever like looked into if there's cuz obviously hearing aids have been around for a while. What's there's got to be like a new kind of thing coming out, you know? I don't know. **Ronan:** Well, the technology like I had I had hearing aids when I was a kid. like my mom and dad like they cotton on that something's a miss. Um and the doctors were like yeah he's profoundly deaf like probably want to recommend teaching him sign language sort of deaf. Um but I was kind of reading and my speech was quite good which the doctors were very surprised at. like his speech is excellent for a 4-year-old with that amount of hearing loss. He I was a bit tight at all. He I was a bit tight at all. Um so my parents like no it's all right. But hearing aids yeah we'll definitely look at that. And um so I wore them all the way up until I was about I think about 14 and being a kid I lose things and I break things and I forget things like and it got to a point where basically they were like this is your last one. We're not getting **Lou:** you're not getting any more after this one cuz they're expensive bits of machinery, right? **Ronan:** I can only imagine. **Lou:** I left one on a in the pocket of a plane, the backseat of a plane once uh when dad and I were flying flying here to Sydney. I've got in a shower with him. All sorts of weird and wonderful [inaudible] Um, but the last one that broke was I got into a a blue on the uh basketball courts in high school in grade 8 or nine and it was this dude that used to pick on me in primary school and then we ended up going to the same high school. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. **Lou:** And I hadn't seen him for many many years and he knew about it and he's like while we're having a scrap he's reached for my hearing aid and he's ripped it out of my ear. I saw red and I had three or four year 12 students pulling me off this guy. I'm just like [inaudible] fight club style. Like where'd you go psycho boy? Um because I knew it was my last one and it was damaged. Um and it's it never got replaced or paid for. Anyway, it wasn't until I worked at when I was working at Employees Only um and one of the owners there asked me if I'd be interested and I looked I figured it's been 20 odd years. Surely the technologies come ahead in leaps and bounds which it has. ahead in leaps and bounds which it has. Um and I I and a lot of these um or all of them in fact all the aiologists or the companies they they'll loan them out for like 3 months try before you buy sort of thing. M **Lou:** um two reasons. One get yourself used to them before you invest $10,000 in something that you're wearing for the rest of your life. Uh and two because they you need to tune them. So, I remember as a kid like [inaudible] I swear it was monthly. Probably was a lot less, but very regularly going in for checkups and they put the headphones in the [inaudible] bone reader and the thing and they play noises at different frequencies and cuz I'm a little kid. Put a marble in the maze if you hear a sounding to distract you. So, **Ronan:** so it' be like tuned. **Lou:** So, yeah. Well, they they'd be able to take the readings like basically if they all different. So then they play some white noise and **Ronan:** do the same thing and they'll go for different scales. So **Lou:** Oh, that's the older. **Ronan:** That's what **Lou:** That's the old um steam train. **Ronan:** Oh, no way. Oh, it is one of the old ones. **Lou:** The tourist run. So you can wind the window down and hang your head out the window and bring your own lunch and [inaudible] It's pretty cool. Anyway, um uh yeah, so they play all these different frequencies and they map it so they can go kind of like when an optometrist goes better, worse, better, worse. Same sort of idea. And then they tune the hearing aid to attenuate for where your losses are cuz hearing loss is not just a matter of the volume's turned down. It's **Ronan:** certain frequencies are better or worse. So, **Lou:** Gotcha. Okay. **Ronan:** Yeah. So, like I can I can hear high frequencies clear as a bell. So, in a busy nightclub or restaurant or something, if someone I get everyone to call each other chef, for example, right? Cuz that [inaudible] cuts through everything. I can hear that on my **Lou:** Oh, wow. **Ronan:** Yeah. Um, I hate high hats in dance music like car breaks, but I love bass and I love like deep resonant sounds because I can't hear them as well. So when I do hear I'm like um anyway so the guys at employees only offered and it was the same process. I went in there I was like every every week for about 3 or 4 weeks and they're tuning them and I they're really good. They were really good in like just walking around the street and like just general chitchat being especially in a venue like employees only which was just [inaudible] employees only which was just [inaudible] noisy 100 people all talking really excitedly. Um the music I had a speaker kind of right there near my section of the bar. The best way I can liken it, like having the hearing aids in is like if you've never seen the color green, then all of a sudden you can see it everywhere. It's a lot. So, I'm hearing all these frequencies that I don't usually hear. And the 40 years I've been on this planet, my brain is adapted to certain sounds and colors and in the air and all that sort of stuff. So, I might not hear you straight away. your voice, but as soon as I'm looking at you, everything else, like I'll clock right in on your voice, um, if I'm paying attention to it. So, in a busy bar, there could be a bunch of noise going on, but I can hear I can have a conversation with the person across from me **Lou:** quite easily and quite without too much of an effort. And a lot of communication in a restaurant is non-verbal as well, you know, like, you know, whatever. Clap clap. I can hear that for picking up plates. I can hear that through a restaurant, etc., etc. So, I just basically went, "It's nice, but I don't want them." **Ronan:** Yeah. I've gotten along fine without him. I can lip read. Yeah. It's just I mean, it's not super obvious. Like if I think the first time I think yeah I think I went a few ships working with you before it was even like oh I'm standing you're standing on the wrong side of me. I was like oh I didn't even realize didn't even realize it was **Lou:** I don't think I pointed it out though. But yeah, like thinking of the Bob and Tone bar, like if I was if I was looking at the red wines, like that sort of sectional like tidying up where the dirty glasses go, anyone up that end going to have a I'll be able to hear like all the way down the coffee like all the way down the coffee machine. **Ronan:** But if I'm standing at the coffee machine, someone that ends trying to talk to me, they're going to have a hard time getting to me cuz this one doesn't time getting to me cuz this one doesn't work. **Lou:** Dude, it's so fascinating hearing the uh the little chef trick. Shh. Yeah, just that noise. It's another one I have to thank Charlie Parkers for cuz that's they insisted everyone insisted everyone calls each other chef cuz we ran it we did run it a little bit like a line as well. Like so if you're on just the way that bar is set up **Ronan:** it's kind of caught on in uh it's definitely caught on in uh Sydney hospital. I hear it all the time. **Lou:** Bartenders are calling each other chef all the time. **Ronan:** Yeah. I think and I think it's it's kind of like a mark of respect, but it's also kind of a it's easy to I just need someone's it's easy to I just need someone's attention, **Lou:** you know what I mean? Um my nickname at EO was Cheffy. So I call everyone chef anyway. Um but yeah, I think it's a it's a I think it's a mark of respect cuz chef literally just means boss. **Ronan:** That's that's literally what it is. Chef is the the chief of the kitchen. Um, obviously it car carries much more gravitas now, but uh, yeah, everyone called each other chef at Charlie Parkers and I just noticed that I wasn't missing as much. I was like, hm. And then when I went to employees only, um Rob who's the the guy from New York who came over to kind of show us the ropes and everything along with Dashan. Um he called me Sheffy one day uh just like just without thinking and I instantly looked up and I was like you just call me Chef. He's like and he laughed. He's like no no I called you Cheffy cuz you look like Sheffy. I'm like who the [inaudible] Cheffy? and he's like he's one of our OGs from New York and like you've got similar face and the facial hair and the um what at the time I had the like the the mohawky quiff kind of thing and the jacket and you you just look like him and I was like okay that's funny because you called me I heard chef and I always hear chef so I just became cheffy um and all the little um Nepalese guys were like Chevy [inaudible] I love having an army of Nepalese is that just want to please you. It's like the best. **Lou:** So, can you go get that? Yeah. Yeah. I'll get it for you. **Ronan:** Thanks, man. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** The sweetest people on the [inaudible] planet. **Lou:** No, no shortage of that in nightclubs. It's hitting nightclubs. **Ronan:** Have you discovered any like underrated Aussie spirits recently? New distilleries or I don't know anyone any tastings? **Lou:** Yeah, shout out to the local guys down here, Darw. Um, I've only tasted the gin and their vodka and I'm using it as house and Andes, but for what it does, [inaudible] great. **Ronan:** What are they called? Sorry. Darw, **Lou:** Darw, um, uh, native uh, name for the area. um, uh, native uh, name for the area. Um, Darw country, the nation, Aboriginal nation from this area. Um, D H A R A W A L. Yeah. Um, it's just really clean, nice product. Um, few native botanicals without jamming all the finger limes in like so many other Aussie gins like to do. Um, and they're not trying to be to do. Um, and they're not trying to be like crafty boutique. We're so fancy. Um, but they are trying to make a quality product. Um, and I think it's really product. Um, and I think it's really good. Awesome. **Ronan:** Awesome. **Lou:** Yeah. Um, probably the other one is uh Seabour. You can see a couple of bottles up there. See the one at the very top. up there. See the one at the very top. Uh, **Ronan:** Uh, **Lou:** looks like looks a bit like an Archie Rose bottle up at the very top of that. **Ronan:** Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. **Lou:** That's from Nusa near where my mom lives. And they've got some really cool Amaro stuff happening. They do a They do a couple different gins and a vodka, but they've got a coffee and waddles seed amaro that is just awesome. Uh, and they've also got another one. I think this is called Sunset, which is kind of like an Aberoli Okari Campari in that ballpark sort of thing. **Ronan:** Like a bit pair, too. **Lou:** Yes, just a really nice bitter. Um, which is really good, too. Everyone's off the top of my head. **Ronan:** Yeah. [inaudible] yeah. **Lou:** I don't understand why everyone's freaking out about this overt stuff. I tried it. I thought it was balls. **Ronan:** The what? **Lou:** Overt. The It's like a chartreuse. Like an Aussie chartreuse sort of thing. **Ronan:** Oh, I've heard of I've heard of the Aussie Aussie chartreuse, but I didn't connect I haven't connected a brand. My brain hasn't connected a brand to it yet. That's **Lou:** o overt. So Aussie green. And it's I it's it's not chartreuse. And it's I it's it's not chartreuse. No, **Ronan:** No, **Lou:** I've seen a few videos on You Tube of like people trying to break it down and trying to make it themselves, but I mean it's it's made for monks, you know. **Ronan:** How can you how you going to replicate that? **Lou:** 500 years of making the same thing over and over and over again. You get pretty good at it. **Ronan:** You know what I mean? I had a couple of friends that have managed to get over there and it's just **Lou:** where it's made. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. They got access and they met one of the brothers that makes it and it's like it's all shrouded in secrecy and like everything gets delivered but it's all like only some of them make like some of them makes part one part of it and another another one makes another part of it and it's all **Lou:** Yeah, that's all. It's Yeah, it's just one of those things. It's just like old old school old world monkeys mysticism and [inaudible] and it tastes good. It's cracking. It's great story. I **Ronan:** Um, any like obviously you said that uh the Aussie shre is a little bit overrated. Any other overrated trends at the moment? other overrated trends at the moment? Trends **Lou:** Trends I've seen a lot of trends, man. I've been down here, so just kind of No, I Yeah, I don't know. I I mean, obviously I kind of try and watch out on socials and, you know, kind of have a see a bit get a bit of an idea of what people are doing around the traps. I do, one thing I can't get my head around, I don't know if it's because I haven't really played with it yet, but making like these fermentss and calling them cocktails kind of pisses me off. Just chuck everything into a jar, let it [inaudible] bubble, and then let it [inaudible] bubble, and then Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. **Lou:** pour it over ice straight away. **Ronan:** Yeah. Like it's **Lou:** I think they're great ingredients, but I wouldn't say they're they're complete by wouldn't say they're they're complete by themselves. **Ronan:** Yeah, I I I think that's I mean for the longest time I've always been a purist. I studied my classics encyclopedically and you know the old you know uh was it the old repository the 1806 the spirit bit of sugar water like that's a very very distinct um specific but like fermenting [inaudible] that's a beer man or that's a pet mat or There's something that's not a cocktail. If you fortify it with spirits, sure, but I don't know. I just **Lou:** Yeah, not by itself. I would I would agree with that. **Ronan:** Call it something else or call it a ferment. Like, it's I mean, I get it. It's not a beer and it's not a pet and call fruit wine or whatever it is. like **Lou:** A me a me tail. **Ronan:** A maid tail. **Lou:** I don't know. Yeah, for me it's doesn't feel like a cocktail. And don't get me wrong, I'm sick of shaking and stirring cuz I've been doing it for so long. But I still do it because it's what makes a drink taste good. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. Um **Lou:** Um and I'll batch everything come king kingdom come. But I just Yeah. I just for some reason I can't connect those two bits. **Ronan:** Speaking of shaking, I think you've probably got the most not aggressive is the right word. I reckon you've got the most aggressive impressive shake that I've seen in that I've seen so far. **Lou:** The seat belt **Ronan:** that that came from um that came from protecting myself. No, honestly, like I noticed that like when I cuz I used to shake I used to shake like old school up here. shake like old school up here. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** And I just my shoulders were killing me and then I tried coming down here down I saw a mate do it one day. I think he was just being lazy and he was like that'll do. And I kind of went hang on. I went oh that's there's not a lot of movement there. I'm I'm really only using this muscle and this muscle as opposed to **Lou:** your entire upper half of your body **Ronan:** just doing that and I can get a really hard shake happening. Hm. And then I kind of adopted it. And then a couple years, well quite a few years later, um I was at Django and Jacks one afternoon and Aaron, the owner, she's like, "Hey, what are you doing between now and like I don't know, the rest of the evening." I was like, "Probably going to have a burger here and stay here and just enjoy myself. Why do you ask?" And she's like, "Oh, I got a friend. She's coming down and she's a physio and she wants to have a look at the girl shakes and I called Luke. He's around the corner. I'm going to call a couple other people. You're here. Do you want to just I'll just get you to make a daquiri or something. Just something you got to shake. She just wants to observe everyone shaking. I was like, "Okay, yeah, sure. I'm happy to oblige." I was like, "Can I keep my daquiri?" She's like, "Yeah." Like, yes. So, I got in by the bar. I was like, "I must warn you. My shake's a bit a bit different, a bit strange to everyone else's." And she watched it. She's like, "That's actually really good form. Like, you you're engaging your core and you're minimizing your movement. Like, you're protecting yourself. You're protecting like this." I was like, "H, okay, cool." And she's like, "Do do you double shake as well?" And I was like, "Yeah." She, "Okay, do the same thing." So, I did and it was basically the same movement. She's like, "Yeah, again, you're protecting yourself. You're here and here, and it's actually probably the here, and it's actually probably the most um sustainable shake out of any of the ones I've seen tonight." I'm like, "Oh, there you go." **Lou:** How interesting. **Ronan:** Win bonus. **Lou:** It's been It's been thumbs up by a uh chiropractor, **Ronan:** a physio. Yeah, **Lou:** a physio. Sorry. Yeah. So, yeah. So, minimize your thing. I taught I talked to a couple of other people and they've all they've all noticed a difference as well. Like that feels better. I feel like I'm standing taller and I'm not. **Ronan:** My shoulders don't aren't killing me at the end of the night. So the end of the night. So yeah, **Lou:** yeah, **Ronan:** it's your joints. Some people are doing some like weird crazy impressive shakes. You're like, "Well, your joints your joints don't like that." **Lou:** I It's It's a very aggress like you use the word. It's a It's an aggressive movement to do to your body. Yeah. **Ronan:** Make it as easy for yourself as you can. You know, that's kind of my thoughts. I was like, **Lou:** work work smarter, not harder. Yeah. **Ronan:** Yeah. **Lou:** Um, yeah. **Ronan:** I didn't realize it had such an effect on you. **Lou:** Yeah, it was one of the things. It was one of the things I remembered. All right. I want to know what your last meal, last cocktail, and last song would meal, last cocktail, and last song would be. Well, there's I definitely know what the side's going to be. The side is my mom's potato salad. **Ronan:** [inaudible] yeah. **Lou:** It's [inaudible] good and it's so bad for you. She puts like condensed milk and [inaudible] in it. It's delicious and there egg and parsley and it's I get her to make it. She makes it like every time like I had my 40th recently. Well, recently it was April last year. We did a a lamb on a spit in the backyard and I had like all the family and friends and all the family and friends and everything and mom came down and she's fussing like she always does and she's like, "Is there anything you want me to do?" I was like, "Yeah, potato salad." Like, "Okay, I can do that." She made a massive bowl of it and it lasted me a last me like a week. Like I say a massive bowl, like a massive like a proper like I've got like kitchen mixing bowls in there like one like that. It last me a week. I was just like how how And it gets better like every couple of And it gets better like every couple of days. **Ronan:** Oh yeah. It soaks up It soaks up whatever's in there. and do you know what? I think my dad's lamb roast cuz I've never had a better one. I know it's like simple and **Lou:** come from some good cooks. **Ronan:** Well, mom, not really. It's not her recipe. I think it's I think it's her grandma's recipe or something. No. Um, mom's a mom's a decent cook. Dad was always happy to cook lots for us cuz he went through puberty as a boy as well, whereas mom didn't. So, she didn't know how hungry and ravenous my my brother and I would get. So, it's kind of like here's some steamed chicken and some corn. I'm like, and for mains, poor woman. But no, my dad's my dad's lamb roast. It's just I don't know what he does. I've watched him a million times. I've attempted it, but he just does it really well. Last he just does it really well. Last cocktail. It's got to be It's got to be a well-made daquiri, I think. Just Yeah. **Lou:** Well, dary. What rum? Ooh, **Ronan:** Ooh, **Lou:** I think that's a tough one. Um, **Ronan:** depends on your mood, right? little bit. **Lou:** Right now, I'm leaning towards like a Diss 5-year-old, just like a English Diss 5-year-old, just like a English style white rum from the Caribbean. It's got a little bit of funk, a little bit of funk, a little bit of hoggo, but then like my go-to is always plant three star. Um, but Florida Kanye makes a really good one, too. Oh, no. You know what it would be? What? [inaudible] The original Havana 3. The original aged white rum. Not the new [inaudible] The old stuff with the white label, not the yellow label. **Ronan:** Aged white rum. So they they're aging it and then doing some sort of charcoal filtering after. **Lou:** It's a It was like 3 years 3 years old or 5 years old and it was they discontinued it and it was the hit. It was just the best white rum. Like you can just sip it and eat. It was delicious. And if I ever find a bottle again, I'm going to get my hands on it and drink it. **Ronan:** There's probably one going on e Bay somewhere potentially **Lou:** potentially **Ronan:** eventually on Marketplace. **Lou:** I might have a look. Um, and last song. **Ronan:** That's a really tough one, man. It's kind of mood dependent as well. It's kind of mood dependent as well. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. But if it's my last sort of thing, I'm going to be really honest. I think it would have to be like it's kind of like a gun to my head kind of question, you know, like as in I don't know until I'm in that moment. Like I'm picturing myself with a plate of my dad's roast and my mom's potato salad and her dairy and I'm like, "Okay, well this is the end. There's nothing after this. Once I finished eating this and drinking this and I listen to this song, that's it. Lights out." And there's so many different ways I could go with it. **Ronan:** We can leave it open-ended. We'll leave I think maybe something like the corny part of me wants to say Wonderful World by Louis Armstrong cuz it's just such a beautiful song. it's just such a beautiful song. Yeah. **Lou:** Yeah. **Ronan:** And it's kind of like, you know, **Lou:** hope that' be a good song to go out to. **Ronan:** Is what it is. Um but then part of me is also like what's that song that I just want to hear one last time before I go? And there's so many. Yeah. Like I touched on it before, like I'm always listening to music. The only reason there wasn't music playing when you arrived is cuz I was And there was there were that many songs where like they literally make my hair stand on my on the ends. It's just like, stand on my on the ends. It's just like, oh, little Can I have an album? **Lou:** You don't have an album? **Ronan:** What album would you do? Uh, probably Electric Lady Land. Jimmyi Hendris. Nice. **Lou:** Nice. **Ronan:** Cuz it's just amazing. Yeah, **Lou:** that's a very hard, very difficult, but very enjoyable question to answer. You **Ronan:** start going to start flicking through all the archives in your own brain. You're like, "Oh [inaudible] I didn't know forgot that was there." **Lou:** It's like a mini nostalgia trip. Like, oh [inaudible] I forgot. Oh, yeah. Wouldn't that be a great song to Yeah. Well, like how many countless amazing meals I've