Eduardo Conde: From Mexico City to World Class Winner
In this episode of Behind the Bar, Ronan sits down with Eduardo Conde — General Manager of Primo Sanchez, creative force behind the Maybe Group, and winner of Diageo World Class Australia 2023. From his early days in Mexico City to becoming one of Australia's most respected hospitality leaders, Eduardo shares his journey, philosophy, and what it takes to compete at the highest level.
Key Topics
- 🇲🇽 Growing up in Mexico City and falling into hospitality at 15
- ✈️ Moving to Australia and navigating the hotel industry
- 🍸 Cocktail philosophy: why the best drinks come from simple inspiration
- 🏆 The World Class journey: from helping teammates to winning it all
- 🦋 The Butterfly Society: making hospitality sustainable for people
- 🏃 Running, public speaking, and staying grounded
- 🌏 Building community across Sydney's bar scene
- 🎪 The Maybe Festival and what's next for Eduardo
Full Transcript
This transcript was generated using AI and may contain minor errors in speaker attribution.
Ronan: Feel like you're a great person to reach out to. I mean, you've you've achieved a lot. I'm flattered so far. I'm flattered, bro. Thank you. Let's let's do it. It's fun.
Ronan: Um I guess like I'd like to know where you started in your hospitality career. I know you grew up in Mexico. Mexico City. Yep, correct.
Ronan: And how old were you when you moved over and what was hospitality like in Mexico City?
Eduardo: Um first of all, thank you. This is this is cool. But like I'm I'm flattered and thank you for being the first one in this podcast. I always like to support things like this. I think it's really cool. Um yes, so I moved 11 years ago to to Sydney. I'm originally from Mexico City. Um I work in the industry there for since I was like 15 years old. Um, it's not something that like how can I say like I ended up working in hospitality because I was very passionate about football and I realized very quickly that that wasn't going to happen
Ronan: Which I'm I'm glad because obviously my my parents were very um they're very very supportive to to me from the beginning but they they made me aware of the difficulty. So anyway, I kind of like had to find something else to to get busy with and like it was that time of my life where I really wanted to get into music and concerts and stuff. So my parents were like, "Maybe you need to get some money to do that." So yeah, started working in a restaurant which was like a burger place. Uh friend of mine like invited me and I just really got hooked into the environment and the vibe. You were always front of house or did you ever like flip burgers and stuff?
Eduardo: No, no, I started always front of house like I think the the kitchen at that time was a little bit intimidating in a way like I always got uh how can I say like I loved it. I love watching it and like growing up with my mom as well she always cooked for for for my brothers. It is it is for sure.
Eduardo: But that's it like cooking at home is not the same, right? I was had this respect for the kitchen. But it was also good because I think people scare you like oh hospitality is very hard. People will yell at you, the chefs will yell at you. But I loved it. I was kind of like used to that because of football and my dad was a doctor in the Navy as well. So he was very strict. So I was not scared of like people shouting at me or yelling at me. If anything I felt like oh this is like my environment but it was always front of house. Uh I I didn't get involved into bars until I was like here when I literally was working like maybe two three years in the industry in Sydney.
Eduardo: So my experience of hospitality in in Mexico was like when I was a little bit I guess a teenager and then it evolved to like I actually love doing this and I studied hospitality but it was more focusing hotels and resorts. So it's like management uh or business in of hotels let's say. Yeah. Um and then it kind of like shaped into other things. So
Ronan: That's probably the most important part of hospitality you learned first. Like um
Eduardo: Yeah, I think I read something somewhere about your philosophy towards cocktails. It's like it's not it's not so much about the liquid inside the glass, but the uh the moments and the feelings, the emotions it creates.
Eduardo: Yeah, 100%. I mean um I think now I look back and I understand that the reason I have been able to I guess do well in this is because there was like a good foundation and I understood other things first than just the liquid. Um because I think even you you need to remember and like I said this a lot to the people I work with and I think many people have this conversation especially in Australia. Um you need to know as well how to cost a drink you know like it's not just about like the drink is delicious great looks amazing great but how much you know profit you're getting from this how difficult is how difficult is to make I mean you know it too like you
Eduardo: You have a product and you know having that consistency making sure you're getting some profit at the end of the day it's a business right so I think it's very important nowadays to have that mentality and explain that to the younger generations that work behind the See, when you're a chef, that's the first thing they teach you how to be how to be organized and like there's no wastage, right? Try to reduce
Ronan: Pretty much everything and everything has to be cost effective. And that's something I learned working with chefs as well.
Eduardo: And I think now is starting to happen with the bar and with bar managers with in the bar industry, but still I feel a long way. I feel maybe I don't know. First hospitality job in Sydney.
Eduardo: Yeah. Did you always I'm guessing you didn't start off with the Maybe Group. You probably No, no, no. Started off something a little bit.
Eduardo: Well, my first job in Australia was in the Blue Mountains in Leuram. I worked in a hotel called the Fairmont and it was like a very big change for me. It was like doing breakfast in this like um I think this resort in the middle of the Blue Mountains and like it it was very different and big change and I to be honest I didn't love it but it it helped me to understand a little bit how Australia works in hospitality or at least in hotels. Um and then yeah I did my my internship in that hotel as well.
Eduardo: And then my first job in Sydney uh it was also in hotels because that's what I was studying. That's what I wanted to work.
Eduardo: Um and I moved to to Sydney because I had to do like one year in in Leura. That was how the the program was with my school. They moved to Sydney and I started working at the Sofitel in Woolloomooloo. Uh, so I worked at the restaurant first which was called the Garden Court and then I moved to this bar called Soirée which now has been totally refurbished and changed completely but that was like my first gig in Sydney and it it was look I I now I look back and I had a good time and it was definitely different to what I do now but it it helped me in a way because I it made me realize I don't want to work in hotels. Yeah.
Eduardo: Uh and it helped me like decide my career in a different path. But I was very lucky because I met a lot of wonderful people during that time that I I look back and really shaped my my my hospitality career in a way. Uh it was interesting but I never really worked behind another bar like that until I was a little bit older. Maybe I would have loved to work in a pop for example just to as an experience but I never had that um opportunity. I it was not that's usually the classic
Ronan: Uh way. I know even for myself I think a lot of people in the Sydney hospitality industry
Eduardo: That are working in awesome cocktail bars now. I guarantee almost everybody started at a shitty local pub pouring
Eduardo: Which I think is great. No, for sure. I mean, if you ask me where I go now for a drink, most of the time I go I go to a pub to go have a beer or, you know, to have some food. But I I I didn't have that experience just because of how my career was like shaped in a way like you were like you work in hotels, you and you study this to you know to eventually become something in hospitality management.
Ronan: Correct. Yeah. But it's it's all based on like to work eventually in a hotel. Yeah, even even when I was in uni,
Ronan: Like I had a lot of how would you say I don't even know what's the correct word to say, but like there was some sort of like opposition to the way I was doing because I always wanted to do more like restaurants or bars and either close friends to me of me like baristas that they they they were really good they wanted to work in like really good coffee shops here in Australia and they were like no sorry because it's not linked to the to to the hotel industry, right? And it sucks because I realized that at that time that a lot of the best people work in cafes, in restaurants, in bars, not in hotels. I I think this is starting to change a little bit in with hotels now in Australia. But I do believe like the quality of hotels u in terms of food and beverage is very low in in Australia. So, and especially coming from Mexico like there's a lot and you you have a lot of like famous people coming all the time. You have concerts all the time and obviously this we're a massive country as well. the quality is high obviously it's expensive but you you have that idea and you come here it's like completely different right you cannot really compare not New York London it's very different and here I think like where's the people in hospitality working definitely not in hotels it's what I realized but I learned a lot I learned the hard way and I and I still appreciate that part of my journey but it was it was tough for sure that's interesting yeah I
Ronan: I mean when you think about where people go out to drink and uh go for their coffee. Like the only people going to those hotel places like people staying in the hotels. Yeah.
Ronan: But yeah, if we upped our quality then maybe we would be going to those hotels for the for the bars, for the for the cafes.
Eduardo: You know what's the issue? I think the problem with hotels is that it's a different mentality. It's a different mindset. Like a lot of the people you need to go like 10 layers to make something happen like you know in here if I need something I call my boss it's like we get it or I do it myself right where in a hotel like something simple like we need to change the napkins you need to get approval for 10 people and a lot more corporate
Eduardo: Correct like and look there's nothing wrong with it I mean it's it's a proven business of course it works
Ronan: But on this side like on the food and beverage When you think about what you going for dinner, you people have a different expectation, right? And sometimes it's difficult especially with fivestar hotels to deliver that kind of service uh if you're limited and like with hotels is there's this formula where it's very difficult and like sadly food and beverage is always kind of like forgotten. Not saying that it is happens everywhere, but I think at least in Australia for what I've seen in my experience, it was very difficult to make it work, to make it happen. And it sucks because I think it has there's a um there's potential there to to change or to improve. For sure.
Eduardo: Yeah. I think it's one of the downsides when you grow a hospitality company so big that I mean, yeah, I don't think it's just hotels. I mean, I know with my experience, I used to work for a hospitality company that was huge.
Eduardo: And um they did mainly pubs and hotels and we were a restaurant. Yeah.
Ronan: So to try to get approval for like a new cocktail on the menu and trying to get approval for a cocktail on the menu where they they're used to dealing with pubs.
Eduardo: It was impossible. trying to get a new a bottle of wine on the list trying they're like the ones you've already got and like um
Ronan: Yeah there's just something about when you become so big that the people like on the floor interacting with customers um serving guests um just don't really have a say anymore
Eduardo: It it is uh this what you said is understanding your business and I think yeah when you start growing it's kind of like I understand it's difficult to maintain that. Mhm.
Eduardo: Uh but I don't think it's impossible. I think obviously it's something that takes time. You need to build build this certain way. But I would like to see a little bit more of that happening at least here. But I think uh it would definitely help hospitality in Australia with hotels and like I think Sydney is a super touristic city and Australia in general is a beautiful country. Obviously, we're far away, but like I think this gap there is an opportunity that if you make that part of the industry a little bit better, then everyone wins as well.
Ronan: It just brings more people, you know, but but I I guess like it's hard right now everywhere. Okay. But I I think there's this is something that currently we're we're doing and I feel very privileged. I think I went full cycle because now with the Maybe Group we are have partnered with a core
Eduardo: To work with them and um work in these venues and these new projects to make them like really cool and exciting and it's incredible because that's where I started working you know and I and I was like I don't want to work in hotels anymore and now I have an opportunity to come back and do something different and change a little bit that mentality and that mindset and I think that's awesome like things happen for a reason.
Ronan: You're going to feel that you're going to fill that gap that you that you saw originally. You saw that gap and you I'm going to move away and you're like, "Ah, now I can actually have the opportunity to uh that little gap in the market."
Eduardo: Hopefully. Let's see. But so far it looks exciting. Yeah, we have this project Allora which just opened a couple weeks ago and I think it's doing very well. And then yeah, we have one more coming soon as well which is great and then hopefully more. But it's I think a really incredible like full cycle I guess that we went from I went sorry from working in hotels and saying no I'm not going to go back to working on hotels but now we have this opportunity to collaborate with them again and in a way that like you said contribute and then do something different and special which is great like I I love it. So let's see how it goes.
Ronan: Yeah. And I know you wear you wear quite a few hats within uh like you do quite a few roles within your work with Maybe Group like obviously you're GM of of Primo Sanchez. I think you're also a creative one of the creatives for the group. Y
Ronan: How do you is there like a trick that you have to balancing it or I mean obviously the team that you work with must be unreal to um
Eduardo: Yeah to allow you to do that. You must set it up really well for yourself. I think yeah, like you you said it yourself. I also think the titles always are like just to make it sound a little bit prettier. Uh I think it's just a way of saying I'm busy. But yeah, for sure it starts from from the top. I think I say it all the times and maybe from the outside it seems like oh my god you guys are always working a lot but there's a nice life balance and it starts from from from beans and Steph which are incredible bosses but they're better human beings you know they're family people and they are truly care about the people I work with and they're supportive and they give us opportunities to to grow to everyone but they also gives a lot of leadership and you know like ability to to to contribute the best way we can right so uh I feel very fortunate to work with them because this it's it's a teamwork you know we we help each other Stephano of course it's my boss but it doesn't feel like it like in a way it's it's always like when we talk about it it's like it's not my business it's everyone's business which I mean if you met him you know he he is like that and that allows me to do a lot of things and to plan and organize and delegate as well which I think is also one of the best things from this group. I think in the past I've seen and I've worked in places where it's very difficult to transition and to make people grow. People only grow when they leave when someone leaves and they're like, "Okay, now you take the the role." Where here we or that's always kind of been my mindset, especially with Primo because it's been like my project from day one is to make sure people are ready for for the next thing, you know, because and maybe you do it without them realizing, but then by the time it happens, they're ready like, "Oh, I'm actually already like doing a lot of the things that a manager, you know, does,
Ronan: Which is great." and then getting that retribution and the opportunity to grow and you know and some sometimes the the change it doesn't feel that that intense. So yeah to answer to your question I feel it's it's doable because we all help each other and it's something that we love too like like I love this. I love being busy to like I mean today is my my day of money and I'm here but I but I don't do it like I do this because I I I enjoy doing it like you know like I don't feel forced to do it and I think that sometimes happens eventually if your life changes then you need to change the way um your life goes of course but for now this works great and I I really enjoy working with them and that's the reason that we were able to do many things and we all know our space and we'll help each other when we have to and and everyone is very very understanding. So it's it's an ideal job for me like I'm I'm happy I feel comfortable and I'm busy but I always have time for myself as well which is great. Yeah, it's pretty important. Yeah, for sure. Absolutely. Inspiration for cocktails.
Ronan: Is there There's probably not a go-to for inspiration for cocktails. I know for myself it's definitely like I'll go for scrolling on Instagram and I'll try to find something to make a spin out of.
Ronan: Is there like any other how do you say it like weird ways that you find inspiration? Yeah,
Ronan: I think we tend to overthink these things. I in my experience the best ways I've been creative or like the best inspiration I have got is from simple things which is going out for dinner like tried something new and doesn't have to be an expensive dinner like going to a different supermarket and try something different like I got that actually from a guy that works with us Jara he's like sometimes He took us to this like Asian market and it was all of these flavors. I was like this is incredible and you try these candies and this ice cream and this and that's already like starting your at least it was for me your creativity starts like working in your head. Definitely trying dishes and seeing other people inspired by certain things. Um I think that's for sure helps you as well to at least give you different perspective. Uh, another way as well to do is traveling. Of course, um, not everyone has the opportunity to travel. I've been lucky and privileged to travel and I've seen different countries, different flavors, uh, different ideas. That helps. But now, like you said, you don't need to travel. You can put Tik Tok or whatever, and you you have so many options there as well. And that for sure helps. Um but for me it's always like trying to think on a more basic way for sure travel but try to be simple and try to find I guess a way that you can do something the best way possible if even if it's something simple like right now we have a drink which is a banana Daiquiri and it came from the easiest thing that I always I watched the the Godfather and remember this in the second movie where like they go to Cuba and they order a banana Daiquiri and I was so like I imagine how that banana Banana Daiquiri in that environment in Cuba with that with the idea of the movie and everything how we would taste. It's probably the most simple thing but it's like it kind of like transport you to a moment to a scene and then I just try to replicate like our version of that and it's it's the simple simple drink. It's the most simple drink, the most simple execution, but I think sometimes that's what people want. You don't need to break your head for it. And I think that's maybe not how I approach drinks and I try to not break my head that much. Um, but I think as a bartender, it goes in cycles. You when you're younger, you're probably a bit more you want to try million things and different techniques and then the the older you get, you look at different things. But it's The inspiration can come from anything but chefs, talking with chefs for sure, artists, music, so many things. Reading a book like like it's so many things that you can get inspired by and it's up to you how you want to take the the inspiration. Only jumped into world class 23 to help out. You didn't even intend on uh
Eduardo: Well, okay, I'll tell you how. Okay. Well, do you want to explain the uh Yeah. Yeah. What's the story behind?
Ronan: So, I believe and I think many people believe the same. World class is definitely the most I don't want to say difficult, but it's stages. is the one that requires the most attention
Eduardo: Because it's a long competition and you go through different challenges, different stages and even if you do win, you still need to go and compete globally and then in the globals like it doesn't get any easier. It's not that you go and preset one drink, you go through a lot of challenges as well like so it is a full commitment that it's um there's definitely retribution for it. You definitely I think the reason I'm I've been privileged to be successful now is because I did it and you know you get a lot of recognition from it. So to answer your question is that when I compete in 2022 that I made in the finals I it's it's a big hit. No, you don't win. So it's like and it's like decompress or like this was very intense and you are like trust me you ask a lot of people to get to that point like I'm not going to do it. You can ask so many people that have entered like you need like time to to kind of like really think what happened and also because you put so much time into it like it is like a full-time job in a way like you put in time for whatever you're doing your work plus then you work on the competition and your speech on the presentation all of these things. So obviously when you finish and you're like I already put all this effort and I didn't make it. I need a break, right? But 2023, so we open Primo and a lot of people from the from my team uh want to get involved and like they're obviously curious and I saw like an intention of really understanding and but also saw a little bit of hesitation and I felt at the time well it's kind of my responsibility to kind of assist and mentor because I've been in their position too. So, and they didn't want to do it like they did, but they didn't. So, it's like so it was like what if we do it together like what if we do like the first stage together and then you know like whatever happens at least we all so I don't I don't remember how many of us we did but like it was probably like eight of us that we did it the first the first um part of the competition and they were like well you already get to this point are you going to submit? I was like, "But the moment you submit, it's like you cannot go back. You either you either go the whole way or you don't." And I said, "Look, okay, I'm already in at this point. I already did it with them. Why not?" You know, I'm doing at least I'm doing it with my team. I'm going to enjoy it. I already been in this part before. So, I did it. And then obviously you go you pass the first round, which is the top 100. And then the second round happens and without knowing it you I don't want to say it becomes easier but you definitely have a better understanding and it's like you've done it before in a way it is easier to digest certain things
Eduardo: And I I really resonated with the challenge that they gave us for the second second part of it. So it became easier for me and when I real when I realized I was already like finalist again I was like okay that's when I hit was like [ __ ] I'm doing this again like it's I already make it to this point so far without having to break my head like in the first year
Ronan: And I think then when that's when my yeah my mentality changed a little bit and I was like okay I'm already here but instead of being like oh I need to win I want to win because I just thought generally I'm going to enjoy it. If I win, great. Whatever happens happens. And that's how I started. I always started by helping like the team to enter and to get an idea of how the competitions work. And now I'm here in the final. And I think that's the reason I I was able to win because I generally enjoy it and I had a great time and it it felt relaxed. And when people asked me was like, "Oh my god." I was like, but when I look back, I didn't feel it was as hard as the first year if I'm honest, just because I think I had a different pressure on me or different mentality.
Ronan: It almost sounds like that you are you're in like a bit of a flow state like you didn't feel like the pressure on your chest anymore. Yeah. You're in a bit of a flow state and you could kind of put effort into it but also enjoy it while it's
Ronan: Exactly. And like I think everyone that enters and everyone that gets to that point it's very talented. So it's it's not that you I don't even know how to say but like everyone is good like anyone can win you know. So I think it's just as well in that day how you feel and everything and how things work for you. And I think I did what I needed to do and I I enjoyed and I had a good time. But definitely I had a lot of support from the amazing people around me and that really helped me to to to have that mentality and have that calmness. So I was pretty much I just had like three four months open. So it was still in this period of intensity. But I didn't feel like that pressure. Even when people ask me it's like how do you do that? I generally don't know but I felt good. You know I I was in a good mood and I think that tells you a lot that when you enter competitions and I always say this you need to enjoy it because if you don't enjoy it then you're doing something wrong. Like if you put this pressure like I need to win because I need to win I need to win and you're not enjoying it then you're not going to trust me you're not going to enjoy globals because globals are another level. It's intense. It's crazy and that's a different story but I had a good time too. But it's definitely much more hectic than the nationals for sure.
Eduardo: It's probably a good philosophy for I don't know just success in general. Being um being really content and getting into a flow state in whatever you do.
Eduardo: It's good to be ambitious, but the moment you put too much pressure on yourself Yeah. you can you can crumble at any minute.
Eduardo: That's true. And I think that's especially with competitions like something that I said now I've said it in a couple of chats that I I gave and also with my team when they want to enter competition because I think a lot of people in the industry are competitive but if you enter uh a competition you need to remember one thing there's only one winner that's it like if you think about like Olympic games or the world cup there's one champion, there's one person that takes the medal and having that in the back of your head. It should be a motivation, but also a way of understanding what you're facing. And not winning is not failure, but what you can take from it and learning from it. And I say this, I give the example, but how many people fail? like it's I know it's such a a cheesy topic nowadays and like this motivation but it's true like I think if I didn't fail the first year in nationals I wouldn't probably enjoyed as much as I did in the the year after
Ronan: And like if I'm honest I was not ready to win when I saw Nick competing on on Sydney in 2022 I was like I'm so happy I'm not doing that and then you get you understand why so things happen for a reason I don't think not win is is a failure is what you can take from it and take that as a positive. You can always do it again like you know and you probably fail fail more times than you actually win. So it's it's important to have that in the back of your head for sure. You have a mentorship program called the butterfly society.
Ronan: I don't know a lot about it but I think it's very cool that you've uh done something like that. M
Eduardo: You opened it or you started it after you um finished world class 23.
Eduardo: That was one of the challenges through world class. So the second challenge for nationals that year was an initiative with K1 which they call it garnish with good. And that initiative I took it like the next level for globals because they had a similar challenge. So I guess I just took it and made it a little bit bigger. And the whole idea of garnish with good is about doing something good, right? And it is usually um focus on sustainability, but everyone used to think about how can we be more sustainable and reduce ingredients and like that which it's great. But I took a different angle. I said, "How can we sustainable as people?" Like, "How can we how can we make take this idea and put it in an angle, focus on how we can help people a little bit better?" And I think it was a bit easier for me to take that part because the whole idea was to make a transition easier for for immigrants, people that come from overseas. Um, I face that issues. uh a lot of the people that I that I met have come through that journey and it hasn't been easy. It's I now I can look back and obviously you're proud of yourself and everything you have achieved but it was a nightmare like it was very difficult. I yeah no not just myself I was lucky that I had people next to me that supported me but it's not an easy it's not an easy journey right and I think the whole idea was to make that transition easier for people that come from a different country because it's a new language it's a new culture it's a new everything right so having and not just necessarily from a new country maybe someone that comes from city to city right like I've seen it like you go to Perth and there's people I never been to Sydney or you go to Townsville and like and I think moving to new a new city is also challenging. to I felt I had the I had the need to do something that could help and it started as a as an idea and then it started off from from work class from the challenge but then I kind of like it was never really official after it because it's hard to make it work with after the competition everything but I did it where I could which is with with my team with the group so
Eduardo: Basically we just try to make it a little bit more approach approachable for everyone and as you can see like a lot of the people that work in the company is from not from from Australia. So we try to make it easier for everyone like we try to do activities outside of work uh whatever that can be like running, playing football, go-karting, buttery classes or going going for a drink you know like and I think that helps a little bit but also we are I think now we have a very solid way to assist people when they come from a new place and they're trying to get a job right away we have that connection and see like okay we tell them like you know like we know when there's someone coming that wants a job with us we try to do the interview beforehand and everything and we tell them before they even arrive you need an RSA this is where you can get your bank account we suggest you to look a place on this area so by the time they come they already know oh I need to get my tax or I already got my tax phone number I know what an RSA means a lot of the times and it happens like you see people with a resume and and they're like, "Oh, you know, I I don't know what I need. It's very hard." And then it becomes harder for them to actually find a job. So, in a way, we try to transition even if they end up not working with us and we say, "Look, we don't have enough hours, but we have someone else, you know, that we can send you and we're try to be honest on that aspect." Even that it's helpful for people. Um, and I think it has really helped the way we we work with the team. We I'm proud I'm I'm proud to say that our turnover is of staff is very very small. The people that leave is because unfortunately visas and you know the the way it works here but overall we I think people always stay here because we we try to make it easier for them and also we don't you know we don't chain anyone. If you feel like you want to do something, we do it. But when even if you leave the company, you still continue being, you know, a part of us and we we try to retain that connection and that community, which is what is important for us.
Ronan: Nice. That's so that's so interesting. So it started off as a incentive to be like um regenerative. What would you say like what was the competition for the kettle one? It was garnish with good is the name of the book. Garnish with good. So to
Eduardo: Reuse your ingredients. Correct. More sustainable. Yeah. For your ingredients. And you took that as well. What about sustainable for the people in hospitality? Correct.
Eduardo: That's such a that's such a different like perspective shift. That's so like they're extremely creative. And it it was risky, but I felt like it paid off. Definitely.
Eduardo: Well, for sure. I I mean I I won that challenge, but it more than the the award was the fact that this actually makes sense. It made sense to them and they felt like this is actually a real thing. And I just came back from Athens to give a a speech as well with uh with Patron about why immigration is, you know, the future of hospitality. And I see it every day, you know, like I think that's a real issue here. um like in many other places in the world of course uh and I feel like it's something that we need to talk about and it's something that has to be discussed. I think it's still kind of like a taboo topic but in this industry like in many I think it's necessary to have people from overseas like I am not from here you know and this I would say 10 12 people from my team are not from here so and many other venues is kind of the same so I think it should be a little bit easier an easier path for for people in hospitality for sure I think there's amazing people from Australia But it's hard. It's difficult. I think it has to be that it's part of the hospitality to have that diversity as well. And not just here, everywhere in the world, I think. And we see it with products, not just with people, you know, like um so I hope things become easier as well. No, no, everything is too expensive in Australia. Taxing for spirits, for alcohol, you know, labor is too much. So they they don't make it easier, right? So these are the things that I feel like people like that are involved in the industry need to talk
Eduardo: Because it's important you know without having those topics and these conversations then maybe things won't change.
Ronan: I saw you um started running a little. Have you always run or you started is that like a recent activity that you started picking up?
Eduardo: Look it's kind of new it started because I always been like I always love sports.
Ronan: Yeah. I used to play a lot of football but I am getting older so it's harder to do it and like I don't want to get injured. I had it had a previous injuries as well. So I don't want to get um exposed because obviously my work depends on you know standing on the tip for a long so I think definitely uh going for runs is a little bit more um less impact I guess. Uh and yeah I used to box a little bit. I don't do it as often as anymore, but I always had always uh something I guess that gets me out of the house to to to move and uh sports is something that I love and I felt like running is probably one of the things that I enjoy because you go to your own pace, you know, this it's not competition or whatever. I think it's very popular now that a lot of people doing marathons and everything. I don't do marathons or anything. I just like to do it for myself like it clears my my my head. Uh I think Australia or Sydney in particular has incredible roots to run
Eduardo: And then for me I feel I'm living hills like going to Centennial Park is like it's close you know you go for a nice run it's a very um family vibes area. You finish you go for a coffee like it's close to my workplace so it's something that I truly enjoy and it's great. I think you can find good community of people as well that like to go to run. You see a lot of people do it. Everyone does it differently and it's great for me like I like to do it to be maintain myself healthy emotionally, mentally, physically. Uh but and I have a lot of respect to do it more seriously like in terms of marathons and everything but for me now it's just you know to to keep myself healthy and you know to to be uh I guess active and doing something cool. So, have you done any events in the past or
Eduardo: We did I think two years ago or a year ago probably we did a race with it was five or six of our team. Um I don't remember the name. I think it was um I forgot the name but it was kind of like tough mother but I forgot. Oh yeah. Spotton
Eduardo: Something similar. I don't remember the exact name but it was really cool. It was like 10k race. Yeah. Like you're in a team, you go through obstacles,
Eduardo: Correct? Yeah. And we were like, "Oh, let's do the 10k." It was five or 10k. Yeah, let's do the 10k. I mean, we did practice a little bit. We train a little bit. We horge the manager, he's really fit. He does craft my so obviously he was fine, but it was really cool. we did the 10K and with the obstacles and like it was a really nice bonding activity with the team and I truly enjoy it. It was really really cool. Uh so yeah, we did it and since then like I've always been active like I said I always do something even if it's football or if it's a little bit of boxing. Nowadays running is the easiest as well with my with my schedule and with with the work because you can go very early in the morning or you can go just before work you know and it's the flexibility as well from the hours from hospitality even some people do it at night when they finish work and it works well for me uh but I I I truly like it I I enjoy this thing. It's good. You don't need much. Some running shoes and that's it. That's it. Easy. Yeah. You run too, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love running. It's cool. 10ks this morning. Nice. Sets you up. Sets you up for the day. I feel like Yeah. No, it is it's a great way to
Ronan: Yeah. And then you feel like, oh, I have the whole day to do a million other things. For sure.
Eduardo: Yeah. I like it cuz it like sucks so much. I'm like, uh like but when you those last like kilometer or two, you're like this is I feel like [ __ ] And then you're like, "Oh, well, the rest of my day is not going to feel anywhere near as bad as that."
Ronan: That's true. For me, it's always the first five minutes are like, "Why am I doing this?" And like is that resistance? But then once you get your pace again, it's like this is great. And like then I I feel I feel proud of myself. And then I look at Matt White just running. I was like, "Oh my god." I don't know you follow him, but yeah. Bro's doing like half marathons every
Ronan: It's crazy. He's like I don't know how he does it, but very impressive. Uh, I'm happy with my 10 15k and that's it. Yeah. That man is a machine. He is. He is.
Eduardo: Um, how did have you always been like really confident with public speaking or is that like a skill that you've had to develop over the years?
Ronan: No, def definitely. I was I was not very good at public speaking. I still don't think I am. I mean, I can do it. I don't know if I'm great or not, but I at least I'm not scared. Like, which I think is a biggest thing.
Eduardo: I think if you put that fear in yourself, that's what stops you. But for sure, you can improve and you can I guess do better if you practice. I I think practice for sure uh makes you better like in many other things, right? Um but how did it start? Like I think to be really honest, I got inspired when I was doing my internship in in Cancun in Mexico. I was probably 17 or 18 years old. And basically I was doing well you could work in any area at that time in the hotel but they asked me if I wanted to do entertainment which basically entertainment is the guys that are like you know doing activities with the the tourists like oh you want to go play volleyball you want to go like you know to I don't know do whatever like activities with with people right and I was like Okay. And it seems like an easy job, but it's not because you're literally under the sun the whole day and you're talking with people in English the the whole time, right? And you need to have this very bright personality and always in a good vibe because you
Ronan: A little bit fake. Well, in a way, not fake because the people literally the people that do that generally enjoy because once you get the ch like you're like at the beach the whole day with the sun enjoying meeting people all the time. So, it is a pretty cool job but it is exhausting and requires a lot of energy and a lot of you know u positivity know in you. But one of the things was that you had to also do public speaking with a microphone. And I was terrified. I was like, "Nope, I'm not going to do this." Because he was like, "I'm not going to speak in English in front of all these people and these tourists." And like I avoided as much as possible. How old were you at this point? I was like 17, 18. 17. I think it was 18 already.
Eduardo: And Yeah. And they and you saw these guys and they were all so confident and at some point something hit me talking with them and everything and and they one of the guys that I used to work with told me like what are you afraid of like you probably won't see these people ever again you probably have the best English from all of us because you you've been to school you have actually learned English we have learned through speaking with these people right and probably our grammar is terrible yours is probably better
Ronan: And that kind of was like, "Holy [ __ ] that that's true." Like, I'm I'm the one putting this barrier and until I actually said, "Fuck it. I'm going to give it a go." And first time went horribly, but then you get better because you start losing yourself a little bit. And I think that was the first time that I said, "You know what? It's not that terrible." And then you become more confident. And then I think you learn how to yeah have a better pace with people and the way you speak. And I also something that helped me as well was like I was trying to remember when you were in school especially when you're giving a chat in front of people you don't want to bore people right you don't want to be like oh my god I'm falling asleep and I try to remember when you were at school and like this teacher that is like just making you fall asleep like you don't want to be like that so I always try to make it interactive or make it like quick and people can connect to what I'm saying so it's not it doesn't become boring or or in a way just you know it doesn't the message is not well received
Eduardo: And that has kind of helped me to to shape a little bit the way I talk and I speak but by no means I'm someone that rehearses million times I've never been like that I think I've always come comes naturally even when I did presentations at school as well I was always very the one not that I I memorized things I s like bullet points I'm like okay cool and then I talked because that's the way it works for me but It was different for everyone. There's people that need to memorize things and they're very good at that. For me, I can't like I need to take it in a different way. I dissect and read what I want to say and then I I speak it. Um but for sure my recommendation for people is to to practice like doing briefings is a good way. That's the best way to start. Tell us about today and in front of the people that you see every day. And even there it might be a little bit intimidating, but that's probably the first way that you can actually start practicing with with a bunch of people. For sure.
Ronan: Get comfortable real quick if you're doing it once twice a day as well. That's true. Yeah. Lunch and dinner service every day. Exactly.
Ronan: You've been to so many countries now. Been to you traveled so much. You got you got connections at almost everyone in every single continent.
Eduardo: I wish. Uh yeah, for sure. I've been lucky to to travel quite a bit the last two or three years and I think it's probably one of the best things about the industry, the networking having friends everywhere in the world or like in a lot of places for sure. It helps for sure because it gives you an opportunity a platform to to connect but not just for yourself for the team. If anyone wants to go to, you know, Edinburgh, like it's like where should I go? Like go and see the guys from Pan Sons Ian or like or Mexico City, where should I go? Like, you know, connect with the guys from out or Handshake or Limour, which is it is I think a very unique aspect from our career. I think chefs does it do it very well too. Uh and I think with the bar industry is probably for me one of the best uh elements that exist in in hospitality. The fact that you can connect and network with people because I'm sure if you say you know I have yeah a bartender or a friend or um a guest a regular traveling to Hong Kong I never been. look go and check, you know, Barlon or Montana or whoever. Like it it it definitely it's hospitality. You're taking care of them without even having to take them to the bar, you know? Or even people that come here like, "Oh, it's our first time in Sydney. Where should I where should we go?" And like, "Have you been to this place?"
Eduardo: I always get stuck on that one. They're like, "What should we do in Sydney?"
Ronan: It it depends, right? For sure. But it's always great to give a bit of opportunity for people. It's good to give you opportunity to discover but you can also guide them. I said I always ask them what what do you want like what's and I always try to mix it with recommendation like a bit of food also try to divide it in in areas like you want to go to New Town or you want to go to the CBD or you want to go to Bondi you know depends where you are. Uh what I try to divide it like that and I think the guys here as well do it very well as well. they have way more uh friends and connections in in the industry as well. And it's great because they it gives you an opportunity to keep connecting. They're like, "Oh, I I just came from Barasumi and they told me to come here and like obviously we do it through our group as well, Maybe Sammy and Maybe Frank and everything, but we do it with other venues. Like we're I love agave. I love tequila. Where should I go?" like go and check cantino K you need to go like and like like it's different experience different vibe but like amazing products like they really know about the agave like and I think having that um hospitality is very important at least for me and I think we should do it a little bit more in Sydney because it's great you know if it's it builds a good community between everyone you know like so many amazing bars in in in Sydney and in in general eneral in Australia. I think that it's great and I would like to see if we do it internationally, we should do it way more in here like like you told me like competition is not you know I hate these guys or what no it's like you know this there's a bar for everyone. You don't need to love every single doing the same thing. We should be that's it sharing with
Eduardo: That's it. It's not like they do it better, we do it better. I don't think that brings anything to the table. I think it's it's better to have a good um community and connection. And fair enough, just things that you might not like, but I think it doesn't bring anything good. If you have that mentality, it's much better to always be open and busy like you go and try this like you want to go whatever you can, you know, like and and there's a place for everyone, you know. If you want to be more like cocktail bars, like go to the CBD, you know, there's a full street, you know, um Clarence Street, you can take so many good bars over there. And then uh Newton, you want different vibe for sure. Like now Newton is the vibe. No. Or Edmore. It it depends on what you want. So I I love doing that. And I think it opens up like, oh, I didn't know New Town had this many bars or Edmore. like now you know you know and it opens a full gap of so many different venues you know even here the neighborhood is amazing here I'm super happy we moved here we have the dolphin next door which is pop with delicious food like good vibes and then across the trees across the street you have a wine bar you have so many restaurants are like it's perfect mix and just we see it like even this triangle like people come and recommend us and we just came from the dolphin and like and we when people come here say where should we go next go and try this place go and try that place it's it's nice community bouncing and um I think it's how it should be and we try to do it is is the way I like to do it too so
Ronan: Yeah nice you think Sydney's I mean obviously Sydney's pretty diverse in their venue portfolio got a little bit of everything but if you had to open up a new venue is there like an idea that you think hasn't been done before or you think it's all been done. It's just doing the same.
Eduardo: Uh I don't know how to say it. It's not that everything has been done. I just I do think everyone does the same, but it's not an I don't think it's a Sydney issue. I think it's it's a it happens everywhere. Uh I don't think you need to be like a unique niche. I feel that you need to have identity for sure of what you are and who you are. Um I mean think about Primo. I think there's many cocktail bars and there's many like Mexican cocktail bars and but we have a different identity to other places and we embrace that like we by no means we say we are the best Mexican bar. No, we don't say that. We don't think that. It's just we have a different approach to it, you know, and the approach comes from my experience, Stephano's experience, the people that work here experience with Mexico, you know, and agave products. And I think that is like about not taking ourselves too seriously. Uh we obviously respect the agave, we respect the culture and tradition, but also in Mexico, people are do it to enjoy, you know, we're not like, oh, it's not like whiskey like this. It's the truth. like in reality like people drink it to celebrate to enjoy and it's important to respect that but it's also we need to see it more as like something that makes you happy and you do it as a celebration and I feel it's the same with cocktails sometimes people think think too seriously and it's good and I respect that part too in my opinion for me it's more about take it a little bit easier you know it's just drinks you know uh you you you're not saving lives I think that's
Ronan: That's My favorite that's my favorite saying. I say that to my service every service when it gets a little bit hectic and you see like
Eduardo: Your bartenders or other managers like start stressing and you're like just we're not saving lives here. We're just we're just serving food and drink.
Ronan: Exactly. And I think it's the more I've been in the in this industry, I've I have that mantra a bit more in my in my head. I think it's about enjoying and making sure people having a good time and they leave with a smile and they enjoy the cocktail and maybe I'm not saying I'm always be like that for sure when you're younger you want to make sure people always love their cocktails and and you get upset if oh they didn't like my cocktail they don't you're not here to educate people if they want to learn they'll ask you and they give you that opportunity and I've seen it now with with we have this passport of tequila where people can try the gabian they're interested, you know, like which is great, you know, we don't force them to to to get it and the passport is it's free, but people want I want to try this, I want to try that, I want to try that. And it's great because we are not pushing people to do it. They just come and ask for it. Um,
Eduardo: What's this? So, you have like a passport that you can stamp off all the different um
Ronan: Exactly. That's a cool to honest work or not, but it has worked very well because people were like, "This is really cool. like I can keep a track of what I've been drinking. I can see the differences and you write the notes as well like oh and you can see the difference and it has zero cost like we don't charge you for it. It's just an opportunity for you to try different things every time that you come, right? And we write your name, we save it next time you want to try another one, which is a great way to do it. And yeah,
Ronan: It's almost like a it's almost like a reinventing of the uh the flights, you know, like people used to do like wine flights or whiskey flights. And I don't know about your experience with them, but every time I've tried to do them, they haven't really worked a brewery. Yeah. I think they don't really work that well. But this the passport concept is kind of like a reimagining of it that I think it it works a lot better because it doesn't force people to yeah have everything all at once. You can actually like take consuming it.
Eduardo: It and look I I was a bit hesitant about it. I was like, I don't know if it's going to work. To be really referred, it was an idea that came from um one of the staff members, Eric, who is very good at selling and he's very passionate about agave and Stephano. And they were like, maybe we should do this because he was very good at at the old Primo doing these flights that we never had, but he was I'm going to do this. And then we we had this conversation like why do we do it at at the new Primo? And they took this on board and it has worked incredible. Like I I cannot take credit for it, but I love it because it goes back to what I'm saying.
Ronan: We don't take it so seriously. Of course, drink good agave, but you don't need to be, you know, this annoying person like, "Oh, this is how you need to drink. [ __ ] no one cares. Drink as you wish. It's fine." Like, you know, and I think it's it's important to remember that like when people come and order Fireball shots, I'm not going to judge you. Great. have fireball, you know, or we drink whatever like vodka, sorry, vodka, red bull, it's okay. We don't serve it here, but like what you know what I'm saying? I'm not going to judge you. I It's okay. You want a vodka with pineapple juice, have that. It's fine. There's no issues with me. And I think people should have that mentality. I'm happy to serve any drink as long as people are happy and enjoy it. Of course, if we don't have it, like for example, when people ask me for vodka, Red Bull, sorry, we don't have Red Bull, but have vodka pineapple or we can make vodka, orange juice, and we make the pineapple like um we fro the pineapple juice are like great. So, it's a little bit different, you know, it's still delicious. Give people what they want and that's it. Don't argue with them. That's it. Don't don't argue with them. Like and then if you can break the mold a little bit and never like try margarita next and like try with meal then that's a win you know slowly one step at a time.
Eduardo: Absolutely. If um if you had to make a bar product or I don't know if you had to come up with your own concept or product for something what do you reckon it would be? Would it be like a would it be like a lure? Would it be a bar tool that you think hasn't been invented yet? It's a good question. Have you ever thought about it?
Ronan: No, not really. I mean, I know a lot of people do it yeah, I think some people writes books, some people does tools, some people does like a liqueur. Um, to be really honest, it has never been like my priority. I never really thought about it. I don't know what could be something I I would create. If anything, I think I would be more of a how would you say like an advocate of agave
Eduardo: Not from one brand in particular but I would like to people dig in more not just on the product but in the cultural aspects of what agave is for people and what's the cultural impact. I would like to give a bit more information for people to understand where does agave come from and how it is how does it work in the communities so they understand what's the price that they're paying for and like why is it so hard to get it from and is that something that you can go into now maybe like I it's not too deep into but just like
Eduardo: Yeah I think I do it in a way that I can and like I don't know people and be like, "Oh, but you work with this brand and you work." of course like I it's the way as well that you raise your voice and I wouldn't work with brands that I don't want to work like I have also said no to brands that I'm like no like I don't resonate with you but before you judge a brand also try to understand what they do for the community because one thing is the product right and okay you don't like the product but there's a lot of brands that do a lot of for the community and there's also a lot of especially in Mexico been a third world country there's a lot of issues that people don't know within the industry that happen, you know, like and people that live through this um issues dayto day and understanding that part. I think for me it's like when people get annoyed about this they're like oh but why do you drink this or why do you work with this brother and then you're telling me it was like well but I come from this country I know the real issues you know I'm not going to argue with you about it okay but I have a little bit more understanding of the cultural impact on what happens there
Ronan: So that's why I never judge people on what they drink or how they see certain product I don't like I said I'm not here to educate people unless They want to know more. Uh I I I'm going to say a phrase that I love from Ted Lasso, which is be don't be judgmental. Be curious.
Eduardo: It's perfect perfect for our industry. But it it works so well.
Ronan: Don't judge just because uh learn a bit more and then you can have your own opinion. But I don't know. It works for me. I guess that's very enlighting. It's a great perspective to have.
Ronan: All right. Um, last thing before we probably wrap it up. Yeah.
Eduardo: Knowing you, you've probably got something in the works already for your next project or travels. What What What have you got going on in the next, I don't know, start of next year?
Ronan: Yeah. Uh well definitely Primo is my priority and it's uh now that we have open we've seen this amazing response for from the neighborhood from the people in the industry which I love and continue nurturing this venue and making it grow to the next to the next step. It's like Primo grow grew up. A lot of people comment like, "Oh, but the old Primo is like,"Yeah, I know, but it's like
Eduardo: It's like Primo Primo before was a teenager. Now it's an adult." You know, it's like Exactly. So, it's it's like a a more adult version of Primo. So, I want to continue pushing this this Primo to that next level.
Ronan: Uh, like I said, yeah, a couple of projects with a core, which is really cool. Uh, coming very soon. So that's the next the next big step for for Maybe Group and for myself in terms of the creative part. Uh I don't think I have a lot of travel to be honest. I think I just did the last for the year. Maybe yeah in Feb March there'll be a couple more things but for now nothing finalized. For sure we'll do things but nothing u set yet. the the team will go to India for the first time in a week I think or two which is really cool but for me not much more going on in terms of travel and then the next big project for us which as every year we're doing the the Maybe Festival again for fourth year and we're starting to plan that next week so that's always amazing trying to bring bars from all over the world trying to bring a little bit of the industry together for a And that's
Eduardo: Is that exhausting that week? Like do do you come out of that week and go? Yes, it's done.
Eduardo: Yes and no. Because it is a very big week, but it's also a week that we enjoy a lot because you get to see so many people that you don't see every day in Sydney. Like you host them and like they get to see what we do here like in our home ground. and it's always incredible because I know people are excited and the more we've done the festival more people wants to come like oh I want to go to Sydney and I want to see or they want to come back. So it is it is hard I'm not going to lie but it's also the best week that we do like and we know that. So when that week comes we're all mentally prepared like yeah we're going to work a lot but by the end of it we're like it was worth it and now we can relax a little bit we can rest. So it's not difficult to execute in that aspect and we do it that ourselves and I I think we do it because we want no it's not like we need to do Maybe Festival we don't have to we we do it because we have a true care of doing something cool you know for for people but also for ourselves like I I mean I would tell the guys when they look back and say oh my god I can't believe we hosted two number one bars in the world we had Paradiso and we had Handshake Like how many bars can say that you know that you have them at your bar
Ronan: And like every year but you have we have been lucky especially obviously with Maybe Sammy but also with Primo like we had Hanky Panky we had Alimiko we have Cafe so many amazing bars and like it's an incredible experience and having that opportunity as a as a staff member and being able to connect and not only behind the bar but also see them outside and do things outside and show them the city is something that they don't forget and we don't forget because I've seen them now overseas in other places like people are always happy and it's like oh my god I had a great time in Sydney and all of the bars were amazing the hospitality was amazing and it's a really cool cool week it is intense for everyone but we all enjoy it is worth it for sure amazing Eduardo thank you so much no problem thank you so much for having me all
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