Macha: Founder of Mindset Spirits
Episode 2: Macha -- Founder of Mindset Spirits
In this episode of Behind the Bar, I sit down with Macha, the founder of Mindset Spirits and one of Sydney's most sought-after beverage consultants. Macha has designed bars, created cocktail menus, and trained teams for some of the city's most exciting venues -- all built through word of mouth and an uncompromising approach to quality.
We cover everything from her journey out of burnout and into business ownership, the philosophy behind efficient bar design, her legendary beef jerky Old Fashioned at Magma, and a brutally honest take on hospitality trends that need to retire.
This is a conversation about craft, conviction, and building something on your own terms.
Key Topics
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From Bartender to Business Owner
Macha shares her journey from bar manager at Armorica to launching Mindset Spirits, starting with a single cocktail menu for a friend and growing through word of mouth into consulting for hotels and venues across Sydney. -
The Origin of the Name "Macha"
Derived from French "ma" (my) and "cha" (the first three letters of her real name, Charlotte), Macha reveals the personal story behind her brand name and her path to Australia via working holiday visas. -
Bar Design & Workflow Philosophy
From ice wells to bar layouts, Macha discusses her approach to designing efficient workspaces, drawing inspiration from chef's table concepts and the importance of a clean, immaculate bar. -
Clear Ice, Centrifuges & $50 Martini Glasses
An inside look at luxury bar equipment: a $10,000 clear ice machine, frosted martini glasses with frozen water bases, centrifuges, and the gear Macha discovered through 100% Chef. -
Cocktail Creation & Culinary Roots
How Macha draws inspiration from food menus, seasonal ingredients, and the World's 50 Best Bars. Growing up with a chef father gave her a deep understanding of flavor pairing. -
The Beef Jerky Old Fashioned
Macha's signature cocktail for Magma: bourbon fat-washed with beef jerky offcuts, Coca-Cola syrup, and a jerky garnish. A creative use of kitchen waste that became a menu staple. -
Palmer & Co: The Team That Won Bar Team of the Year
Macha reflects on her time at Palmer & Co, working alongside the inventor of the London Calling, and the team culture that led them to win Bar Team of the Year at the Mville Awards. -
"We're Not Saving Lives"
Macha's refreshing take on hospitality culture: the importance of stepping back, taking a breath, and remembering that great service doesn't require life-or-death pressure. -
AI in Hospitality: Spirit Bibles to Stock-Taking
Macha built a 200-bottle spirit bible in minutes using AI. Ronan shares his concept for camera-based stock-taking software. Both agree: embracing AI is no longer optional. -
Hot Takes: Sustainability, Clarification & Trends
Macha challenges the sustainability trend in spirits, critiques over-clarified cocktails, and discusses why some hospitality trends need to die.
Full Transcript
Ronan: I guess one of the questions I had on my mind was how'd you get the name How did you get the name Macha?
Macha: Oh. Um, so it comes from my ex partner
Ronan: Actually. Um, yeah, we dated like maybe five, six years ago now. More than that. Oh god. Yeah, maybe like more like 8, nine. Um, and basically like ma in French means my and then cha is the first three letters of my actual name. My real name is Charlotte.
Macha: Yeah. So basically it means my Charlotte. Like
Ronan: So that's the short.
Macha: I know it sounds very Russian Masha but
Ronan: Yeah actually that's the meaning behind it. And I I thought it was just kind of cute so I just kept it.
Macha: Yeah. As as names do. Yeah. A cool. Yeah. Um
Ronan: I guess get straight into a little bit of mindset spirits. How did you how did you come about? What was the journey from becoming,
Macha: I don't know, a bar bar manager,
Ronan: Bartender, and taking this uh taking this leap to do
Macha: Something on your own? I'm guessing it
Ronan: Probably started
Macha: Pretty small, maybe with just doing a
Ronan: Menu for someone on the side or Yeah, I don't know.
Macha: Um yeah, at the time, uh when I started
Ronan: The comp my company, um I was basically bar manager at Armorica. So, I've opened um the restaurant. I did all the opening, set it up and everything. And um yeah, I just uh I was just like really burnt out. You know, it didn't like it was just the environment was just not great. So, I kind of quit and I uh was like, you know what, I'm sick of working for others. Like, I need to do something about it. And um at the time um one of the executive pastry chefs that will have like had left also uh opened his own restaurant Kurumba and he basically asked me to do uh his cocktail menu and just you know help with the design and the setup and all that. So I said oh yeah like cool like I can help you. So I kind of did that for him like he was really happy and then I thought oh maybe like I can actually be a consultant. Um so yeah I quit Armora and eventually yeah a few months later I was like okay I'm going to do website I'm going to have a brand and I just built you know everything on my own.
Macha: So it just took that little taste that
Ronan: Little taste of what it's like and then you're like all right let's go let's go full in on this.
Macha: Yeah. Yeah. basically. Um
Ronan: And uh yeah, basically it's been word of mouth. Uh just meeting people. Um so after I did that, um Travan introduced me to a friend of his who he worked with before uh Danny uh Karam who opened Magma in the Noel and then basically Danny like really took me under his wing and helped me and you know got me the contract for the hotel. Uh, and then yeah, that's how I got that, you know, big big contract. So, that was pretty cool. And then I got contacted by other people for like smaller projects. So,
Macha: Yeah. Right. What's um what's Danny's
Ronan: Story?
Macha: Oh, Danny. Um, well, he came to
Ronan: Australia, I think, like just years ago, like in his 20s. Um, and he started with like nothing. like he told me he was making pizzas in like a shitty place or and flipping burgers and um I think he eventually um started working at um the crown uh you know black the restaurant black. So he was basically the executive uh chef there for like 10 years and that's kind of like how he kind of started like his career and he yeah he stayed a long time and eventually like became like a consultant and Yeah.
Macha: Now he's got his own place. Yeah. Now he has his own place. Named named after himself. Named after himself. Yeah. Yeah. That's unreal. Yeah. Yeah. He loves, you know, anything
Ronan: Like cooking with fire. So that's what that's where the name come from. like he has a lot of inspiration from like Fire and you know Nomad in Norway. So yeah.
Macha: Yeah, they're great places. Yeah, they're pretty cool. Yeah. What brought you to Australia? You're
Ronan: Originally from France.
Macha: Yeah, France. You could have chosen anywhere in the
Ronan: World. What?
Macha: Yeah, it's true. What um how'd you gravitate towards
Ronan: Australia? Um, a lot of my parents had like friends like they have kids and they've been to Australia and they thought, "Oh, you know, maybe you should go." Um, and uh, I actually originally grew up in Spain. Um, so I'm not like 100% French. Um, yeah. So basically I wanted a change. Um and uh yeah, I came on a working holiday visa and I really liked it. Uh yeah, I loved it. Um I was like really connecting with like Australia and then I did a second working holiday, then a student visa, then two partner visas and you know still waiting for my citizenship though, but
Macha: It's coming. It's coming. Yeah. Yeah. Applied for my
Ronan: PR like recently. So
Macha: That's exciting. Yeah. almost 10 years, you know. Wow. Yeah. Anything coming up with uh with your own
Ronan: Business, Mindset, Spirits? Anything in the works or is still looking?
Macha: Uh I've got like a couple of like small
Ronan: Projects uh one with my friend Jack New um who was a chef, now he works at a law firm, but he does his own little thing on the side. So, I'm doing like a popup on Sunday, for example, at Caravan with him. Uh,
Macha: Whereabouts? Caravan, just in Pots Point. Oh, right. Um, I have something coming up with a
Ronan: Cafe not too far from here called Algorithm. Uh,
Macha: Oh, yeah, I walked past it on the way
Ronan: From the station.
Macha: Uh, so yeah, they're really expanding.
Ronan: They're opening like couple of new places, one in Sur Hills, one in uh Marville. So, and they want to do like a all day dining kind of thing. And I'm also trying to work on building a hospitality app.
Macha: Ooh, yeah, that's exciting. Like a Is it something you can operations? Is it something you can talk about or
Ronan: No, not
Macha: I don't want to talk too much about it,
Ronan: But I Yeah, I literally started last week. Um,
Macha: Off camera, maybe. Off camera. Off camera. Yeah. Um, yeah. So, that's kind of um things
Ronan: That are coming up like
Macha: Soon. Yeah. Right. Very exciting. Yeah. So, when you first walk into a venue Yeah. Is there something that
Ronan: What stands out to you the most?
Macha: It can be like it can be dining or
Ronan: Consulting, but is there is there aspect of a venue that stands out most? Whether it be like I don't know for some people it's lighting that jumps out. Sometimes it's the level of the music. I would say the yeah the whole atmosphere like the fit outs and the lighting. Yeah. I think that's two things like that are really important and you really need to nail it when you open a place. Yeah.
Macha: Does your um does your consulting go
Ronan: That far into like fit outs for dining rooms and stuff like that or it's strictly um everything behind the bar?
Macha: It's mainly behind the bar. For example,
Ronan: At Candyville, I did the design like the inside of the bar, like the ice well and all that, but uh yeah, I haven't had a chance to design outside of that, but I think that would be awesome. Um yeah, I would love that.
Macha: Yeah.
Ronan: How did you how did you put it together? What's your thought process when you're when you're designing it? You've given I had the pleasure of designing a bar that never actually got built. Um,
Macha: Okay. But how it started for me was I got the
Ronan: Square meterage.
Macha: Okay. And then that's all they knew. They were
Ronan: Like, "This is the space that we have for the bar. We don't know what goes in it. That's your job." So then I said, "Hey, we need to get this in. We need to get that in. This is how far the bar is going to be."
Macha: Yeah. What was you've What's your thought process when you're
Ronan: Is it similar? Like did you get a square meter in that you had to work with or
Macha: No, I um there is this um
Ronan: What's this the name of this company? Uh beyond behind the agency bars I think it's called. Um yeah, they designed those like really cool like flat bars and I kind of like that chef tables look and um how like efficient they make their bars. Um so that's was kind of like the inspiration and there is a few venues that have them in Sydney like Bri. Um there was four pillars that's now El Primo Sanchez. So I really like clean.
Macha: You use the same guys to fit out. Yeah,
Ronan: I think that
Macha: That I I we didn't go through them cuz
Ronan: They were like too expensive, but we kind of like was were like, "Oh yeah, this is cool." Inspirational.
Macha: Yeah. Inspiration. Yeah. I had the pleasure of doing a cocktail competition uh when was it? I
Ronan: Think it was a year ago now. Last January
Macha: At the four pillars when it was the four
Ronan: Pillars lab. I remember yeah getting to work behind there and be like this is This is the best part.
Macha: Every bar should be like this. It just hurts your back, you know. So,
Ronan: When you have like the separation with the it, you know, you just have to reach um pretty far. Um and it forces you also to make sure like it has to be everything has to be immaculate. And I'm like super pedantic, you know, like I everything needs to be clean, you know, like the tea towel needs to be folded. So,
Macha: Yeah. Yeah. It's good. It forces you. It forces you
Ronan: To keep everything really like in check.
Macha: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. do you have any like systematic
Ronan: Approaches when you're designing cocktails? Where do you get your
Macha: Feel like kind of that's a hard question
Ronan: For me to answer.
Macha: For a lot of people, it's like they get
Ronan: Inspiration from there's so many different inputs. Like I don't know, there's a lot of different places you can get inspiration from, but is there
Macha: Is there one that you've like been
Ronan: Surprised from? Like you come up with a cocktail from inspiration from somewhere like I would never have thought that
Macha: Those flavors have gone together, but
Ronan: You discovered them or ingredients even.
Macha: Yeah. Um well, usually I try to um
Ronan: Inspire myself from the food menu of the restaurants. Uh what are they going to serve? Uh season as well is important. And yeah, I try to like inspire myself, I guess, also from the 50 best bars. So, I follow like a whole bunch or, you know, if I like the look of one cocktail, I'm like, "Oh, yeah, cool." Like, I like this garnish, you know, maybe I can do it, but I can do it a bit different, you know, and uh and also um I I have like a culinary background. Uh so, my dad um is a chef. Um so, yeah, I've been I've been in hospitality for a while. So I guess you know I have that sides from my dad and like understanding flavor and yeah.
Macha: What's most important to you behind a
Ronan: Bar? So you've got to choose one of them.
Macha: Okay. So we've got some bar luxuries for you
Ronan: To choose.
Macha: Um what's more important for you? Uh
Ronan: Pre- chilled glassware. So like glassware you can get out of like a little drawer
Macha: Or a crushed ice machine. Chilled glass. Chilled glassware. Yeah. Um, chilled glassear or a vertical
Ronan: Rinser?
Macha: A vertical one? Rinser. You know, like when your tins
Ronan: You can just like push down, you know.
Macha: Chilled glass. Chilled glassware. Um, you've got chilled glassear Oh, I do like a prep shift, actually. Yeah. Yeah, I like a prep shift. Um, we've got a prep shift or a barback.
Ronan: A barbec. And we've got a barbback or clear ice.
Macha: Clear ice. Yeah, clear ice. Clear ice
Ronan: Has been the winner a few times.
Macha: Everyone loves clear. I love clear ice. It's just so
Ronan: Expensive, though.
Macha: Well, that machine that you showed me,
Ronan: Um,
Macha: Machine you showed me was awesome. I
Ronan: Didn't even know I didn't even know they existed. I had no idea.
Macha: How How did you come across that? uh the
Ronan: Executive chef uh that I was working with uh to open the hotel. Um there's this website called 100% chef and they have like a whole bunch of like very cool like equipment. Um so that's where we found it. And yeah, you can buy the modes and it's pretty cool. It's just some like it's I guess it's just nicer the convenience of getting it delivered. Uh because you know you have to put the water.
Macha: Yeah. How does the machine work? So
Ronan: You're filling it up with water and then
Macha: So it fills up itself. So you just press
Ronan: A button, it fills up and I think it's just kind of like a overnight situation. And then the next day you come and then yeah you sort of take the trays out and like take each mold out
Macha: Put it in like a one of those fish
Ronan: Polyester boxes
Macha: And then basically put back the molds
Ronan: And you know press the button fill it up again and yeah so I guess it's a bit of work but yeah it's uh it's pretty cool and you can get like diamonds you know spheres um yeah everything. So,
Macha: I'm sure if you've got your I'm sure if
Ronan: That venue stays open like in a few years, it ends up being
Macha: Oh, yeah. It will pay itself back like
Ronan: Yeah, for sure.
Macha: Do you know if it works with I know
Ronan: There's two ways of creating clear ice. There's the um directional freezing method.
Macha: Mhm. And there's another one where you freeze
Ronan: The water while it's being circulated. Oh, I've only done the first one, you know, with the eski.
Macha: Yeah. I'm wondering if this machine um
Ronan: Which which method it uses.
Macha: I have no idea cuz if it doesn't leave any if it
Ronan: Doesn't leave any cloudy ice or it doesn't leave any water.
Macha: No, it's not cloudy at all. It's like
Ronan: Completely clear. But there is a filter like attached to it. So, I don't know if that helps, but I couldn't tell you what the inside does.
Macha: Yeah.
Ronan: How much was it?
Macha: $10,000. Yeah. And I'm thinking like if you're doing a
Ronan: Dollar if you do if you pay a dollar a cube.
Macha: Yeah. That pay for itself in no time. Yeah. In no time. Yeah. And there is I I
Ronan: Think we had the smaller one. Uh but you can get like a bigger one. Um it's probably like 15. Yeah. So probably like make like even more. Is there any other cool uh machines that you found on that same website that you're like, "Oh, maybe not for this venue." But
Macha: If I was to do it again, well, we were pretty lucky, I guess,
Ronan: With that project cuz I could go crazy and get whatever I wanted. So, we got a centriuge. We just got things to like bubbles. And we got what? We got this like this glass. It was so expensive.
Macha: Uh it's like a martini glass. So it has
Ronan: Like um a base and it's like looks frosted and there is there is water in it so you can put it in the freezer
Macha: And then like it freezes and then this
Ronan: Like super delicate like uh basically V-shaped martini glass but without the stem so it just like you just put it on. Um
Macha: You have to send me you're going to have
Ronan: To send me a photo of that.
Macha: It's pretty cool. I can't imagine it. But they were like I don't know $50 a
Ronan: Glass or something ridiculous like
Macha: Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of cool
Ronan: Things. Yeah, you should look it up.
Macha: Yeah, I will. Do you remember the name
Ronan: Of it?
Macha: 100% chef. And I think they do. There is also 100%
Ronan: Bar.
Macha: Let's do another one of these segments. Okay. We'll find out. Favorite family of
Ronan: Cocktails. So, you've got uh high balls or muggs. Margaritas.
Macha: Margaritas. Yeah. Um, margaritas or
Ronan: Martinis?
Macha: Margaritas. I hate martinis. Easy, easy one. Uh, margaritas or
Ronan: Daquiries?
Macha: Oh,
Ronan: Daries. Yeah.
Macha: Uh, daquiries or spritzes? Daries. Daries or tiki? Daries. Daquiries or oldfashions?
Ronan: Dairies.
Macha: And last one, dairies or Negronis.
Ronan: So I guess like Americano and the Bulvario come underneath it.
Macha: Negroni. Negroni is a winner. Yeah. Negronies are
Ronan: So good.
Macha: Yeah. Yeah. When it's well done is
Ronan: What's your favorite cocktail bar? My To be honest, I'm probably such a bad person to ask.
Macha: I um I don't go to that many I don't
Ronan: Really drink that much anymore.
Macha: Me, too, actually. Yeah, I'm a bit of a grandma now. Where's a great cocktail bar? I mean, I
Ronan: I always love cantina.
Macha: Oh, yeah. I got it. Haven't been in a
Ronan: While. It used to be one of my favorite places actually.
Macha: It's hard to go past Cantina. Um and then probably Old Mates. Oh yeah, Old Mates is cool. Yeah, that whole um strip of Clarence Street is uh yeah, so iconic. And I think you can go anywhere in that
Ronan: Little strip and you're going you're going to be treated well.
Macha: It's pretty cool.
Ronan: Um, yeah, but like I said, I don't I don't go I don't go out a lot, which is
Macha: Yeah, pretty bad. But yeah, cocktails are crazy now. $30 for a cocktail now. Yeah. When you when you when you when
Ronan: You get paid to make hundreds and hundreds of cocktails, you all of a sudden a beer in front of you at a
Macha: A bar is enough for you. Tasting cocktails all day. Go back in time and tell yourself
Ronan: Something. M
Macha: Any advice you'd give yourself? Yes, I would say don't let you know
Ronan: People you know like judge you for who you are you know just keep going you
Macha: Just uh you know do better than you know
Ronan: Like don't accept like failures just you know do better every time. Yeah.
Macha: Yeah. I say you're versing yourself. Yeah. Challenging yourself. Yeah. It's good.
Ronan: Stay focused.
Macha: Yeah. Yeah, you have to. Yeah, it's a
Ronan: Tough hospitality to be honest. Yeah. Sometimes I'm just like, ... what am I
Macha: Negronis. If you're going to a Negroni
Ronan: Bar or even if you're making a Negroni at home, what do you what gin are you using? What what vermouth are you reaching for?
Macha: Do you have favorite favorite brands? Yeah, I do. Um, I used to work actually
Ronan: As a sales rep last year for Noble Spirits. Um, and he has like a really nice vermouth that I love. It's called Starino. It's from Italy. Uh, no added sugar. It's made in uh, Torino and uh, they actually age the vermouth uh, in X bourbon barrels for a month. So, it gives it a bit more depth. So, I really like using that vermouth. Campari obviously. And then for Jean, I don't like anything like too floral. I just like a classic London dry like Sip Smith or like Tanker.
Macha: Is there anything you think matters
Ronan: Or opposite way around? Let's let's reword that. Anything you think that doesn't matter in hospitality that sometimes people put a lot of emphasis on.
Macha: I think sometimes there is a lot of like
Ronan: Pressure like in hospitality. Um, but I think we sometimes we need to remind ourselves we're not saving lives, okay? You know, we're not doing surgery here, just serving people. Um, so I think, you know, like people just need to kind of, you know, like take a step back sometimes and be like, okay, let's take a deep breath, you know.
Macha: Yeah. I love that phrase. We're not
Ronan: Saving lives.
Macha: Yeah. I first heard it from my manager at the
Ronan: Winery named Ricky.
Macha: Oh, you worked at the winery? I worked
Ronan: At the winery. Yeah, that was my
Macha: Uh Australian venue and co. Yeah. Yeah, I worked for them as well. Ah, which venue were you at? Uh 12 Micron, but they kind of Yeah, they didn't stay open too long. Yeah, I was a bar supervisor there. It
Ronan: Was my first job in Sydney, actually.
Macha: Oh, wow. Yeah. I joined ABC after they'd already
Ronan: Closed it, I think.
Macha: Oh, yeah. After they closed 12 Micron. I think we got some of the furniture.
Ronan: There's still some of the furniture. Yeah.
Macha: Oh, they might have gotten rid of it
Ronan: Now, but when I was working there, there was some 12 micron furniture up there.
Macha: It was a nice venue, but I don't know.
Ronan: The concept was just not working.
Macha: It's 12 micron. Is it still around? They're owned by a different They use the space for functions for weddings and stuff. Yeah. Which I
Ronan: Think is a good space for functions. Yeah. We used to have a lot, but the restaurant was dead.
Macha: What's been your favorite venue to work
Ronan: At so far?
Macha: Uh, Palmer and Co. Palmer and Crow has
Ronan: Been your favorite?
Macha: Yeah. I've never worked in a place like
Ronan: That ever again. Yeah. We had the like we had I never had a team like that. We had like the best team.
Macha: So it was the team It was the team that
Ronan: Made it the best place.
Macha: Yeah. Yeah. Like I was just I should
Ronan: Probably shouldn't say this, but I was like excited to go to work. Like I have I have like we were just excited to go there and be together and work together, you know, and have fun. And we were all just like so close with like the even with the managers. Um at the time the venue manager was uh Chris Jespo is the guy who invented the London calling.
Macha: The what? London calling. Oh wow. I
Ronan: Didn't know that.
Macha: Yeah. He was the venue manager. Um yeah
Ronan: We had like the team was they were they were like bartenders from like London that worked at the Seavoy you know and like you know great Michelin star. So yeah, we were just a really strong team. We actually won um team of the year at the Mville Awards that year. So
Macha: Cool. Yeah. Yeah. I never found ever a place
Ronan: Like that.
Macha: Yeah, that's the thing. I've noticed it
Ronan: Um noticed it with a lot of people like I I've asked them what's their favorite place to work and what's the best time they've ever had.
Macha: And it's nothing to do with like the
Ronan: Equipment there. It's nothing to do with
Macha: No, it's Yeah. It's always to do with the
Ronan: The people that you're surrounded with.
Macha: Yeah. It's so important to to acknowledge that whatever energy you give out, you're going to receive. Yeah. As soon as one person's off, then that has the ability to snowball. Yeah. It's like a domino effect, you
Ronan: Know.
Macha: Yeah.
Ronan: And I don't know, it seems so obvious to us, but there's a lot of people that I don't know, it's not really at the front of their not really at the front of their mind.
Macha: Yeah. I know for me, like even if I was having a terrible
Ronan: Day, like as soon as you as soon as you walk in that door, you put that smile on cuz cuz you know that you know that the domino effect is like a real thing.
Macha: Yeah, for sure. You don't want it to you don't want to
Ronan: Catch on to anyone else. Yeah.
Macha: Yeah. It was good times. What other ven you worked at? U as well,
Ronan: Right?
Macha: Yeah, I closed UD actually. Closed it. Yeah. So you So I mean the old one, you
Ronan: Know, the one that was in Darling. So I did the closing of Odov, like the closing of that place cuz they closed and they reopened in the city.
Macha: I didn't know that. Yeah. I've only ever been I've only ever been
Ronan: To the Wyard one. Oh yeah, they um yeah, the old OV was in Darling and I was in this like hotel. Um yeah, I did I worked for the Speaky Group for about a year and I worked in all their venues. Um yeah, it was it was fun. I liked it.
Macha: Yeah, very creative. Um super high standards. It feels like as
Ronan: Soon as you walk in there, you're like you look around you're like standards are through the roof of this place.
Macha: Yeah, 100%. And it's a good feeling. Yeah, I kind of learned a lot of I
Ronan: Learned a lot of things when I worked for them. Um, you know, when I was I was working there, I remember I had to do my own clear ice um
Macha: With the eski. Yeah. I they refused to buy clear ice.
Ronan: Um, and we had this like 5 liters contain 5 liter containers and I will have to freeze like 10. And then when I will come on shift, I will have to use like the ice carver and like you know like carve my cubes and that will take you know like an hour and a half cuz you have to go through like 10 ... like tubs and then you have to do the prep you know and the cocktails is just you know it's one cocktail it has like four items to do. So, it pretty intensive prep, but you know, it got me it trained me into like actually like learning more about like techniques and like being more creative and how far actually like cocktails can go.
Macha: Yeah. So, yeah, it was pretty cool. You must have got pretty good at uh
Ronan: Carving up ice.
Macha: Yeah. Been a while. I wonder if they still do that. Surely
Ronan: They're buying it these days.
Macha: I would hope so. Yeah. Yeah. Um any cool what cocktail what type of
Ronan: Cocktail techniques did you learn? Just like obviously you've got the classic fat washing and shrubs and
Macha: Yeah. All that like I was doing all
Ronan: That. So I I remember before I started with them, I was coming from Palmero and Palmero it was pretty sort of like we were really focusing on classics, nothing too complicated or technical and you know it was a really busy venue and I thought you know yeah like I was kind of a bit arrogant. I was like oh yeah I know everything you know like I have nothing to learn here and then when I got to uh to speak I was like ... like this is actually there's a lot to learn. You got humbled real quick.
Macha: Yeah. I was like I had to learn how to
Ronan: Blaze. I had to learn how to use liquid nitrogen. I made like sorbets with liquid nitrogen.
Macha: Blazes in like just using a torch or Yeah, like blazing at the table. We had
Ronan: This cocktail. What was it called? Um I think it was called zabayoni. And yeah, you had to blaze it, I think. Um yeah. And
Macha: What's this? What's this blazing? It's
Ronan: Not just using a tor is blow torch is it?
Macha: Yeah. So basically you have two tins um
Ronan: Two like metal tins and then you put your alcohol in one and then you heat it up from the bottom and then like flame it and then basically like just kind of when you roll you know when you roll your bellini kind of like that.
Macha: So you're rolling but with Yeah. with fire basically. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. like you know any like foams
Ronan: You know fat washing sid but yeah it was pretty intense working with like herbs and teas and just yeah a whole bunch of yeah different things it was yeah
Macha: Wow a lot of prep a lot of prep yeah do you think sometimes prep can go too
Ronan: Far
Macha: Like over overgineering is a real thing right over
Ronan: Engineering a dream
Macha: Yeah especially like I feel like some
Ronan: Bar they just go a bit too far, you know, like now there is this trend of like clarifying drinks. Um, and and now every time I go out, if I have a cocktail, if if I go to one of these like really nice cocktail bars and I try something clarified, I just feel like it just ruins the whole flavor, you know? Like it not ruins it, but I just find it like really unbalanced. Like sometimes it's okay to have like a puree doesn't need to be clarified or just you can do nice like cocktails that look nice but yeah I feel like sometimes it sort of diffuses the flavor. Yeah.
Macha: Yeah. I think um it's definitely lost
Ronan: Its like
Macha: Its specialtity. Yeah. Just because of how many people are
Ronan: Doing it.
Macha: Yeah. Unfortunately, but that's the way it go.
Ronan: It'll probably disappear and then come back around in another 5 10 years. That's the way that's the way trends work.
Macha: I don't do too much clarification
Ronan: Actually. It's quite rare.
Macha: Yeah.
Ronan: What other um do you have any other trends that you think are over I don't know trends that you think aren't going to stick around? M O
Macha: I'm trying to think of some maybe the uh the minimalistic trends. The minimalistic trends. The the foraging. The foraging. Oh, no. I This is my my
Ronan: Favorite. Sustainability.
Macha: Sustainability. Yeah. I honestly Yeah. People need to
Ronan: Stop with that.
Macha: Yeah. They need to stop or stop. Yeah. It's just ...
Ronan: It's for the
Macha: What are we doing is already not
Ronan: Sustainable like like you know making alcohol is not sustainable. We like soak like water from rivers and barrels and we cut trees like there's nothing sustainable about that like so that's why for me it's just Yeah.
Macha: Yeah. That's an interesting take a
Ronan: Controversial take. I love it.
Macha: Yeah. It's a bit controversial but I know it's in all the competitions and
Ronan: Yeah. It's everything even like all these uh all these spirit brands and
Macha: It's like what do you what's your
Ronan: Sustainable what do you what's your sustainable point? It's like almost
Macha: I don't know it's not mandatory but yeah
Ronan: It is everywhere isn't it?
Macha: Yeah yeah it's everywhere. What's another one you've got? Uh
Ronan: I feel like I've gotten I feel like I did a segment once. Ask charg.
Macha: Yeah. Do you use a lot of um do you use
Ronan: A lot of AI in your work?
Macha: Yeah. I love it. Yeah. Um the app I was I'm trying to
Ronan: Build Well, it's not it's not really an app. It's actually a platform for like desktop, but maybe I'll turn it into an app after. I basically because I I don't know anything about coding or anything but it's AI is so amazing um that you know I'm like okay this is what I want to do and just send it like it summarizes it for me and then I ask basically okay like I need a step by step how to do that you know so I found a website and then it tells you literally like step by step to you know put this thing you need to create this box like every single step. So, it's actually quite amazing like is I think everyone should use AI.
Macha: Yeah, I have the idea of coming up with
Ronan: A well, it's not really my idea. I definitely stole it from someone um who didn't make it to market, but using AI to create uh stock taking software.
Macha: Okay. cuz you think all the methods of
Ronan: Stock taking at the moment like there's a bunch of people still doing pen and pad. There's
Macha: Um there's all digital where you're
Ronan: Still like going through you're finding the item and then you're writing you're manually entering
Macha: Yeah. your count. There's the barcode method
Ronan: Where you grab a bottle, you scan the barcode, you're still entering the count.
Macha: Yeah. But to have a stock taking
Ronan: Platform that's a camera that recognizes bottles.
Macha: Oh yeah, that's cool. That recognizes
Ronan: What the level
Macha: Is inside the bottle. Yeah. Is 100% so doable. Yeah. Um Yeah. The reason that's pretty cool. The reason I was
Ronan: Thinking of it was because there was a guy when I first started Cocktail Foamer who we were both like showing each other what we were working on and kind of giving each other advice
Macha: And he developed this app. It was an app
Ronan: At the time.
Macha: Okay. Or maybe it was on I think it was still
Ronan: On the internet, but it was a working camera.
Macha: Mhm. And it recognized bottles. Okay. And you still had to manually input the
Ronan: Count. Oh,
Macha: But it was bottle recognition and this was back in 2022. Oh, wow. So, I was like, if that's if that's what
Ronan: Bottle recognition was like 2022.
Macha: Oh, yeah. That would be it super accurate now. Yeah. Yeah. You could make something good. And I probably spent maybe like 6 7
Ronan: Hours seeing if I could start developing
Macha: Yeah. um something. And then
Ronan: Yeah. I got stuck with all the coding and even though it writes code out for you. Yeah,
Macha: It's still like telling you what to put
Ronan: In if something doesn't work. And I'm getting really stuck on cuz you've got to get the bottle images from somewhere. So
Macha: To be in the brain of to be in the brain
Ronan: Of the AI that you need to be pulling it needs to be pulling bottles from somewhere. So I was like surely it can just pull bottles from the internet. Google, but Google's got quite a few
Macha: Different quite a few things in place to make sure
Ronan: That you're not scraping images from them.
Macha: Um, so yeah, I haven't really worked on
Ronan: It since then, but
Macha: Yeah, I'm sure you can find I'm sure you
Ronan: Can find a way.
Macha: Yeah, even like maybe like another
Ronan: Search engine like a Bing or one of the smaller ones. There is uh there is actually this like really cool AI. Um it's kind of chat GPT but I think it's like 100 times better. It's called Strawberry Browser.
Macha: Oh, okay. Yeah, it's awesome. Like to tell you
Ronan: Just how awesome it is. Um I recently kind of created like a spirit bible for a venue. Uh and there is like 200 spirits for on their back bar,
Macha: Right? And I asked Strawberry Browser,
Ronan: Can you do basically like, you know, like a spreadsheet uh with like the bottle, the ABV, where is it from, a description, tasting notes, um, and a bit about the producer and literally like you can connect it to your Google account and it automatically creates the document in your Google account and like just pulls everything for you. And I just had to check like I just did a check and it even puts the images everything for you. Um yeah, 200 bottles and I was like shocked like how accurate it was. I was like oh my god that would have
Macha: 10 hours work down the drain. Hours hours to do that. It's incredible. Impressive. Yeah. Anything else that you've used it um contracts as well? Um yeah, writing up contracts. Yeah, writing up contracts. I think
Ronan: That's something pretty important as a consultant. Yeah, you really need to make sure you have like
Macha: A lawyer. It can be a lawyer for you.
Ronan: Who does everything
Macha: Exactly? Yeah. You don't need to know any to pay a
Ronan: Lawyer like you just can Yeah. It writes everything for you like proposals as well. Everything. I just yeah I just use it for everything like I just have to check it and be like okay I don't like this like can you add that and can you change that but yeah it saves me hours of work
Macha: Yeah I think yeah anyone who anyone
Ronan: Who's playing around with AI at the moment
Macha: And making and developing stuff through
Ronan: It
Macha: Is going to go going to go a long way the next few years yeah I've talked to a few people who are
Ronan: Like oh I try to stay away from it and
Macha: I I don't think you should like I think
Ronan: People should embrace it like we
Macha: You're going to get swallowed. Yeah. We're going to otherwise we're
Ronan: Going to sound like our grandparents, you know? They're like, "Oh, back in the days, you know, we didn't have phones and TVs and Yeah. I mean, you know, you may as well embrace it. You know, it's it's just there and it's just going to get worse. You know, just learn about it. Like some people are going to use their lose their job because of AI." So,
Macha: Yeah. Yeah. And it's going to make it's going to
Ronan: Make a lot more jobs. Yeah, also. Yeah, for sure.
Macha: Do you ever use Have you ever used the
Ronan: Uh agents?
Macha: No, I've seen it, but I just don't want
Ronan: To pay for it.
Macha: It's just like another It's another
Ronan: Level of complexity.
Macha: Have you used agents? I've dabbled around with it. I haven't
Ronan: Created like I haven't created any
Macha: But there's yeah you've got to create like workflows and
Ronan: It's almost like a different type of
Macha: Not coding but like you're instructing it and saying
Ronan: All right if you're going to do this
Macha: If you're choosing yes and the next step
Ronan: You're doing here if it's a no do there and then if that step's a yes and it's just yeah
Macha: It's like another level of complexity which I'm sure if invest like I don't
Ronan: Know an hour, 2 hours.
Macha: Yeah, you'd get the hang of it in no time. Yeah, for sure. One other good thing
Ronan: About AI as well is like when you use it a lot because like it like um remembers your data then if people try to find you they sometimes they just look on chat GPT and like a lot of people actually have found me on Chad GPT.
Macha: Yeah. Yeah. cuz like I feed it for my
Ronan: Consulting cuz I I do like you know proposals like I sometimes I need like to change my website and I'm like I don't know how to do this like can you help me and I've just fed it so much that like if you type beverage consultant in Sydney I'm like I think the first or the second result now on chat GPT yeah
Macha: So yeah I think yeah businesses yeah you
Ronan: Need to feed it as well with information it's yeah it's good
Macha: What do you use for your website? What
Ronan: Are you on your website?
Macha: Uh when I first uh designed my website,
Ronan: I use Wix uh but I was a bit sick of it like there's things I wanted to do but it was not working and I switched for uh Squarespace.
Macha: Was it difficult
Ronan: Uh transitioning from the two or is it pretty copy and paste it straight on?
Macha: Yeah, just you just transfer the the
Ronan: Domain. Yeah.
Macha: Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. But I I decide to design a
Ronan: Completely new website on Squarespace because my old domain was and because for SEO is better. You need you need to be it needs to become.au like if you're in Australia base
Macha: Especially. So yeah SEO are you good
Ronan: With your SEO?
Macha: Uh yeah look I just use again I use AI as a checklist. Yeah. and go, "Hey, have I have I
Ronan: Maximized SEO or
Macha: What's the one for AI now?" AI SO cuz they're slightly they're slightly
Ronan: Different like to to get your SEO
Macha: Really good and to get your SEO for AI. Yeah, similar but okay. I've never tried the is it Google
Ronan: What is it called? chatp SEO or so I just use chat GPT or like cloud uh cloud sorry
Macha: So I'm still using I'm still using chat
Ronan: GPT
Macha: But I'm asking it hey how do I show up
Ronan: In chat GPT more when
Macha: When people when someone looks for a
Ronan: Replacement for a
Macha: Cockail how do I make sure that I'm top yeah ranking yeah and then it'll give me like a checklist
Ronan: Of like hey this is what you should do maybe create um do some blogs on your website that are like top 10 and
Macha: Yeah so yeah it's a lot of work it is a lot of work it's rewarding though that's the best
Ronan: Thing about doing something
Macha: For yourself. Yeah. What do you use your second phone for? Uh just to separate personal and business. Yeah. Yeah. It just got too much last
Ronan: Year. I was just you know I was working for the hotel. I was working at King Clarence and I was a sales rep and yeah and and when I was doing the hotel like I also had another small project. It was pretty easy like it took me like 2 3 weeks to complete for an event space in Alexandria but yeah it got to a point where it was like okay I need to slow down. So yeah that's why I took some time off.
Macha: Yeah. So are you looking at the moment
Ronan: To get back into service?
Macha: Ideally I I feel like if
Ronan: I feel like I will waste my skills will be wasted if I I'm just a bartender you know I feel like I will be
Macha: Better in like a operations role. Uh but
Ronan: I I think it's the challenge is you know I still have my consulting on the side and you know when you want to be a manager or like have a bit of like a more head office role like it's often fulltime. Um so it's it's a bit hard bit tricky to kind of find a compromise.
Macha: Yeah. It's difficult going straight for
Ronan: A role like that in a hospitality group anyway because they usually
Macha: I feel like they mostly promote internally like Yeah, that's true. They're promoting their Yeah, you've got you got to start from inservice
Ronan: Somewhere
Macha: At least at a management level before
Ronan: You get considered
Macha: To jump up to one of the head office
Ronan: Roles.
Macha: But who knows anything can happen. That's true. Anything can happen. Yeah. What part of consulting do you love the
Ronan: Most?
Macha: H I really like
Ronan: Spending time with the staff and like training them and getting them up like to speed. I think that's one of my favorite part like meeting people like working with you know different behaviors and you know adapt yourself. Um, yeah. I would say that's my favorites.
Macha: I just realized when I I sent you that
Ronan: Message earlier during the week cuz I reached out to the overproof
Macha: Lady who runs Overproof, but then I was like, "Oh, by the time
Ronan: You saw it, I don't know if the story the story was already uh the story was already there." Oh, you saw the story before it got taken down.
Macha: Yeah, I was following her already
Ronan: Actually. Um and I did reach out to her and uh she me she actually um replied to me and say oh like I after that post I got a lot of like girls actually in hospitality that message me like they probably just needed a little push. So she said I'm pretty packed but like I'll definitely like reach out for sure. Yeah. When I have a bit more room I'm say okay cool.
Macha: So that would be cool. Yeah. If I do
Ronan: Something with her. Yeah. How are you um how are you doing making I know you're saying you're trying to get content out there.
Macha: It's a difficult one, but the um the
Ronan: Ones you were making were pretty good. I loved them.
Macha: The uh carousels. Oh, yeah. The carousels. Yeah. Yeah.
Ronan: I've I've started that like before going away. And I have to make sure I also add it to my website cuz I've got a blog. Uh, so basically the blog version on my website is a bit longer and I just kind of find a subject, you know, that I like and Yeah.
Macha: Yeah, it's great. It's hard to be
Ronan: Consistent. Hard to stay consistent.
Macha: Yeah. Yeah. I haven't done one for a
Ronan: While, so I probably should look into it.
Macha: Yeah. For a while, I was looking into
Ronan: Like I don't know, a way to post across all platforms.
Macha: Yeah. Cuz I don't know. I feel like Are you on
Ronan: Tik Tok as well?
Macha: Yeah, I I I'm on Tik Tok. Um but I don't
Ronan: I post like travel videos on Tik Tok.
Macha: Yeah. Right. Uh I have a Facebook page, so I have to
Ronan: Make sure that's on Facebook. I have to make sure it's on LinkedIn. So every time I do a blog post, it's I try to do it on all social media.
Macha: Yeah. It ends up taking like an hour. Yeah. It's Yeah. Yeah. There's got to be Yeah, there's
Ronan: Got to be a easier way.
Macha: Yeah. To like centralize everything like Yeah, maybe those like scheduling apps.
Ronan: I don't know if that will work for all platforms. I need to look at look into it.
Macha: Yeah, I'm just thinking surely it'll be
Ronan: Worth it if you're doing like
Macha: More than one post a week. So, you got to create a cocktail. Yeah. With one of the following ingredients. Okay. But they're all pretty bad
Ronan: Ingredients. So,
Macha: Okay. Um, you got to choose between a wasabi
Ronan: Lucure.
Macha: Okay. Or a garlic infused gin. Wasabi. Wasabi lure. Wasabi lucure. Or bubble Bubble gum with wasabi. No. No. You choose either the wasabi
Ronan: Lure
Macha: Or Yeah. So, you got to make a cocktail
Ronan: With either the wasabi lure or you got to make a cocktail with the bubble gum and bacon vodka.
Macha: Bacon vodka. Yeah. Um,
Ronan: So now you got to choose between the bubble gum and bacon vodka or a
Macha: M bacon. All right. All right. The bubble gum and
Ronan: Bacon vodka or a smoked salmon whiskey.
Macha: Bacon. Yeah. Too far. Bubblegum and bacon vodka or a
Ronan: Cheesecake cream lure.
Macha: Oh, that's kind of cool, actually.
Ronan: Yeah, I'll choose a cream cheese.
Macha: All right. Um, cheesecake, a cream lure,
Ronan: Or a pepperoni pizza schnaps? Ooh. Um, the cheese the cheesecake.
Macha: Cheesecake. Crave lure. Yeah. Or a kimchi brandy. Oh, yeah. Kimchi brandy. Yeah. I wonder what that would taste
Ronan: Like. Kimchi brandy is the winner.
Macha: Wow. Now someone's just got to make it. Yeah. Well, I've made a cocktail with
Ronan: Beef jerky, so
Macha: Oh, yeah. Tell me tell me more. for
Ronan: Magma actually. It's the signature oldfashioned.
Macha: I mean, it makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. He makes Danny makes like
Ronan: The best beef jerky. He has this like secret like recipe. And then basically the offcuts of jerky that they don't use. I um take them and sie them with bourbon and a bit of like the spice rub that they use just to intensify the flavor a little bit. And I do I do
Macha: So there's meat as well as the fat in
Ronan: There.
Macha: Yeah. Yeah. So basically suvid like 75°
Ronan: For like one or two hours and then freeze it. Uh strain it through oil filter and then I did like a Coca-Cola syrup just Coca-Cola and sugar equal parts. Um, and just a little bit of bitter. And the garnish is like a slice of jerky in like a oldfashioned with clear ice cube.
Macha: Yeah. How is the jerky used at his um
Ronan: Restaurant? Is it like uh instead of getting a basket of bread at the beginning of
Macha: Yeah. Yeah. It's like an entree. Yeah.
Ronan: You can get it in the starters. Yeah. Just just It's just like a jerky plate.
Macha: Yeah. I had that I've had that idea
Ronan: Before, but it's never I've never seen it been done before.
Macha: Yeah. You go check it out. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Thanks so much for doing this. Yeah, no worries. Oh, good. It's
Behind the Bar is a podcast about the people who shape Sydney's drinking culture -- the bartenders, bar owners, consultants, and creators building the venues and brands that define how we drink.
Published March 15, 2026